Then there were be no point in having exported several million manufacturing
jobs out of the country (he says with deep sarcasm). Anyone who thinks
those jobs are coming back is smoking jimson weed or worse. The Chinese
version of OSHA is: anyone complaining about workplace safety is taken away
and shot and their families are sent a bill for the bullets. The scariest
part is that they could sink us (and perhaps themselves and maybe the whole
world) by just selling all the US bonds they are holding. I read today that
the real, "uncooked" jobless rate is over 17%. That's close to 1 out of
every 5 workers being out of work.
yeah NAFTA was a BAD idea.............
the machines I sell and service for a living now come from china.
my family in phoenix is devastated, nearly all manfacturing jobs went
to mexico, home prices are in free fall, severe unemployment.
how long will recovery take 5 years? 10? 20:(
the only way we can compete is moving to robotics with artifical
or drop our standard of living to near match 3rd world countries
I've heard a number of people tell me that their factory was disassembled,
crated and sent over to China. That's going to turn out to be as smart as
when we sold Japan scrap steel from the 3rd Av. El only to see it come back
in the form of battleships and aircraft carriers that killed our soldiers
and sailors. We'll go toe-to-toe with the Chinese someday. "The two
biggest kids on the block, they're bound to get in a fight."
By the time we end up in a fight a strong national military, ours will have
been so well trained in fighting terrorists in hiding in the hills that we
may take quite a beating. Instead, we're doing what we've done for the last
100 years: fought Europe's wars for them. Iran's missiles will land in
Spain, England, Germany, Russia and Italy a long, long time before they ever
reach the US. Saddam was a bigger threat to his neighbors than he ever was
to us. But who spent trillions in treasure to fight him while bleeding out
jobs by the millions?
Sorry to hear that. When SocialSec blows up, lots of boomers are going to
be in bad, bad shape. No one's talking about how the unemployment rate
means there are fewer people than ever paying into the system. Without
another technical miracle like the PC (no, it wasn't tax cuts that made the
90's so fruitful) we're in bad, bad shape.
No one even talks about the worst case scenario and that's we never recover.
I read that the bozos that did all the fancy hedge fund risk predictions had
deliberately excluded the Great Depression from their calculations. Ostrich
Maybe. I believe only a national commitment to solar like the one JFK made
to reach the moon *might* save us. I read an article that said robotics
firms are suffering in Japan and many robots that are leased out are "out of
work." When robots go on the unemployment line, you KNOW you've got a
serious depression on your hands.
Equilibrium. I don't see how we could have expected anything else from
exporting all our jobs to the 3rd world and then selling them the equity in
our homes to pay for all the cheap goods they were able to produce. Their
S.O.L. rises, ours falls. Water seeks its own level sort of thing.
I think the bottom line is that Malthus was right at the wrong time. The
earth just can't support 8 or 10 billion people. The do-gooders like Bill
Gates bringing medicine and lower death rates to people who can barely feed
themselves as it is are really just adding to the crisis that will hit us
like a hammer 20 years from now when the population of the world explodes.
For every powerplant we equip with scrubbers, China builds two new ones
I have always called that the Greenspan/Gates Expansion. Gspan for
the ridiculously low interest rates for a ridiculously long length of
time, and Gates as a proxy for the productivity gains made possible by
To find that place where the rats don\'t race
and the phones don\'t ring at all.
I was the person seeking the citation,
since those numbers seemed much too high
for me. The citation provided did in
fact support the very high number of
deaths in China (~100,000 per year) in
coal mining. I was still skeptical, and
did a search on "coal mining deaths
china" and found several sites that
provided numbers much lower. Finally, I
found one which said:
CORRECTION: 3,215 coal mining deaths in
On January 28, China.org.cn carried a
Xinhua story that mistakenly reported
91,172 deaths due to accidents in
China's coal mines during 2008. The
correct figure for 2008 coal mining
deaths is 3,215, according to the State
Administration of Work Safety (SAWS).
SAWS told China.org.cn today that a
total of 3,215 people were killed in
coal mining accidents in China during
2008, down from 3,786 in 2007.
A SAWS spokesperson said the 91,172
figure referred to the total number of
deaths resulting from 413,752 accidents
of all types throughout China during
2008. The figures include all workplace
accidents as well as road traffic
accidents. The corresponding figures for
2007 were 101,480 and 506,376. It is
believed a mistake at a press conference
led to the total accident figures being
applied to coal mining alone.
The Chinese authorities acknowledge
there is a major problem of health and
safety in the country's coal mines, but
say most accidents occur in small,
privately-owned, and often illegal,
mines rather than larger, state-owned
producers. They also maintain that
safety standards are gradually
(China.org.cn February 9, 2009)
I can provide the links I read from the
search I described above, but I suggest
any other skeptics do a similar search
of their own. I now believe the annual
deaths in China from coal mining are in
the 5,000-10,000 range, not
Best regards to all
Excellent catch, sir. I never failed to be amazed at how erroneous (and
nearly unbelievable) information gains a monstrous life of its own on the
Internet. Who hasn't done a Google search on a phrase in, say Wikipedia,
only to find that 100 other sites have lifted the information? Sometimes
it's verbatim, but sometimes is been subject to editing that subverts the
original meaning, often with a nefarious agenda. My "favorite" (sarcasm
alert) false numbers are war casualty statistics, loosely based on the "we
lost no one, they lost everyone" theory.
I wonder, in this case, how much of the repetition of the outrageously
highly initially quoted death toll is due to good faith transposition errors
or a desire to believe that life is valueless, or near so, in China.
Actually, what I think it says is that China is much, much larger than the
US, so the numbers alarm us disproportionately, and that the Chinese are
mining an enormous amount of coal. We had some pretty serious mine death
figures in the US until we got serious about mine safety (the Feds, not the
industry - they came along screaming ever inch of the way). This Mine
Safety and Health Administration site
will show that the US and China have had some very parallel experiences when
it comes to lots of miners dying yearly. Hopefully, they'll clean up their
act as we did.
BTW, no offense meant to any posters here in this thread - I am sure no one
falsified any statistics. It's just well known that if you take any group,
from football teams to political parties to nations, there's SOMEONE that's
got a bone to pick with them. Falsifying statistics is a time-honored way
of doing that!)
Dig, dig, dig. The hollow piling is stronger for its intended load.
The hollow tube piling has greater bearing capacity. The woulda/
coulda/shoulda Monday morning quarterbacking stuff is stupid. The
excavation and the heavy rains are what caused the building to fall.
Note the other buildings did not fall.
I know nothing of the seismic activity in the area, climate (read
typhoon, etc), so it is pointless to speculate whether the design was
adequate or not. If a contractor undermines a foundation, whatever
the design, it will fail.
Certainly, that last was precisely the point I was made. The failure
was of the nature it was because once the initial lean became of a
certain magnitude the construction had little compensation for tension.
I still say seems at least moderately unusual to have so little steel in
large concrete construction. I've not tried a typical design wind
loading calculation estimate, but there would be quite a moment on those
towers that would be translated downward on the windward side.
It's a little hard to see in the photos but to me it looks like the
pilings were actually made by first driving metal piles into the
ground and then filling the inside of them and encasing the outside of
them in concrete. most likely they drilled a hole to some depth, then
dropped the piles in and drove them deeper, then backfilled it all
with concrete with some rebar.
Architect I.M. Pei once said that we should reconsider our love of
skyscrapers, particularly in earthquake zones because "Someday, the world's
tallest building may end up being the world's longest one." I think he may
be right if this is how they're being built.
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