Boiler help

I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.

I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know whether to go for gas or electric.

I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it evens out in the end.

Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner | Heating Services | Aramendia'

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but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I start ringing around.

Reply to
ChloeP
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it depends upon your local energy prices. right now, natural gas is probably cheapest, unless you have enough solar to run your boiler.

Reply to
chaniarts

Electric at 100% isn't that much more efficient than a new high efficiency 90%+ boiler to make up for the huge difference in energy prices, unless you're living somewhere with unusual prices for energy. Also, you have a gas boiler, so electric what? Resistance to heat the water? Never seen that done for a whole house. Heat pump? That makes more sense from an energy standpoint, but I don't think heat pumps can heat water to the temp typical baseboard heat needs. And even if it does, you're looking at a much higher cost that a new gas boiler. Most logical thing is going to be a new high eff gas boiler.

But what about AC? If that is a consideration, switching to a gas furnace/AC system would give you heat and AC, but that is obviously going to cost a lot more because I presume the house has no duct system. How much that would cost depends on how the house is constructed and how hard or easy it would be to run the ducts.

Reply to
trader4

Ground source heat pump? Also can be reversilbe for cooling.

Reply to
harryagain

First choice is gas if it is available. I'd stick with oil before going to electric, at least at our rates.

I put in a new boiler a few years back. Based on degree days, I'm saving 39% on my oil bill compared to the old setup This is what I have

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In my case, paying for itself just from oil savings.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

I can't imagine any possible scenario when electric is more efficient than *anything*.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Chloe:

20 years old is an old gas fired furnace. 20 years old is a young cast iron boiler.

Where I live, it's common to see hot water heating boilers that are 100 years old and still going strong.

Why would you want to replace an old heating boiler in the Houston area. You only use that thing for a couple of months at the most each year, so despite the fact that it's not nearly as efficient as the newer equipment, it still doesn't cost you much to operate because you don't use it all that much.

Yes, a new boiler will be more efficient. But it'll also cost a lot more to repair because heating companies know they're a lot more complex to diagnose problems with them, and so most homeowners just pick up the phone and open up their wallet. The heating contractor just takes as much as he wants cuz he knows that you wouldn't have known what to do to fix it yourself. With older boilers, half the handymen on this forum could tell you what's wrong if you explain the problem to them.

Unless there's a solid reason for wanting to replace this boiler, I'd think twice about that decision. You'd be better off just using what you have for all the heat a house in Houston needs in the winter, and given what a new high efficiency boiler will cost you.

But, a properly maintained cast iron boiler will last longer than grandma, so 20 years is NOT an old boiler, and replacing it just to save on fuel costs in a place like Houston is a money losing decision.

Reply to
nestork

A heat pump may be a reasonable alternative but probably not for a hydronic system (perhaps a mini-split, though).

I was never happier when I dumped oil for natural gas (conversion burner), even though fuel wasn't any cheaper.

Reply to
krw

More "efficient", easy. Cheaper, not likely. It comes down to defining what you mean by "efficiency". If you use the normal definition of efficiency, Kw(out)/Kw(in), there is nothing more efficient than electric but efficiency isn't all it's cracked up to be. ;-)

Reply to
krw

Those 100 year old boilers will probably outlast some of the 20 yo. I've seen quite a few 25 - 30 yo being replaced for various failures.

You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good condition.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.

I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design than one that burns gas.

So, I really don't think you can change an oil fired boiler into one that would burn gas in an economical way. That is, I expect it would be cheaper to buy a gas fired boiler than convert an oil fired boiler into one that will burn gas.

Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm. So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some form of gas storage facility on your property.

But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to

100 years if properly maintained. Longer if it's a popular brand and your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it. If this boiler were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings. But, in Houston, where "winter" is the last two weeks of January when you might put on a sweater before going outside, replacing a perfectly good boiler with a high efficiency boiler to "save on fuel costs" is crazy. You're going to spend far more money on the new boiler than you're ever going to save in fuel costs.

And, on top of that, your average 20 year old boiler is pretty simple and every heating contractor in town is going to know how to repair it. A high efficiency boiler will have it's own computer to determine when and how it comes on and how it operates. So, if it's not working properly, only the heating companies in town that sell that make of boiler are going to be able to diagnose what's wrong with it. They know they know they have the customer over a barrel and charge accordingly for their services to repair it.

If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of money in an effort to save $20 per year, and they leave themselves exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.

Reply to
nestork

Some boilers are easily converted from oil to gas an vice versa. Depends on the design. And finding someone with the ability to do it.

But you are right about the economics. In this case you only change the boiler when it leaks or when parts can't be got.

Reply to
harryagain

What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into commercial units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal heaters converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in the 50's and 60's.

While that is true, I know of plenty of houses with gas service and oil heat. My in-laws is one. They cook with gas, heat with oil. About 30 houses on that street are/were like that. Your speculation will be trumped by fact. The OP is asking about conversion so I'd guess it is available, but only he knows for sure.

Mine was a popular brand but needed replacing after 28 years, not 100. If this boiler

Yep, mine is paid for by fuel savings alone, plus enough left over to go out for dinner.

But since neither of us is in his boots, we don't know the situation at all. Anything we suggest is based on speculation at this point.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Electric is a way to get energy from one place to another. The real energy source is coal, natural gas, water fall, nuclear, etc.

. Christ>

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I've heard NG burns more clean, and so there is a lot less maintenance, failure to light, etc.

. Christ>> I put in a new boiler a few years back. Based on degree days, I'm

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I would convert to forced air and add AC...... costly initially but in houston AC is essential......

Reply to
bob haller

But what kind of EFFICIENCY do you get after you've converted that 20 to 40 year old boiler to nat gas? I would bet it's significantly less than a new high eff boiler would be and what does it cost to convert, versus just buying a whole new high eff 90%+ nat gas boiler? Isn't the cost of a whole new boiler only like $2,000 for the eqpt?

They must be nuts. It doesn't take long to recover the cost of switching to gas. And with the $1500 fed tax credit that was available just a few years ago, possible state rebates, utility rebates, etc, lower maintenance costs, higher efficiency, I can't imagine why they wouldn't have switched instead of using $4 a gal oil.

Were like that, as in 30 years ago, I can see, but I can't say I've seen a single one here in NJ. But today? I don't know of any houses here in NJ that have nat gas piped in for cooking, but don't use it for heat. The only ones I know of are those like Nestork says, where nat gas is not available. There are cases where nat gas is available at the street, down the street, etc, but it could cost a lot to get it into the house.

and they leave themselves

Nestork has a good point there. I would not think the heating bill would be that large in TX, so maybe it's not worth changing anything at all. Might make better sense to install more insulation, which would also help with cooling, which might save even more money. As you say, only the OP knows the numbers and they didn't provide them.

Reply to
trader4

All of my experience with boilers is with gas fired commercial boilers. Here in Winnipeg, everyone uses gas fired heating equipment, whether it be boilers or furnaces. The odd place, usually commercial buildings like strip malls use electric heat.

I'm surprised to learn that oil fired boilers can be converted into gas fired units, and vice versa, but it's clear that the boiler would have to be designed for either fuel right from the start, and I've never seen that. Perhaps it's more common in more expensive boilers like Viesmann. But, if you go onto a more common boiler manufacturer's web site, like Weil McLain, they classify their boilers as gas burning and oil burning, and so far as I've seen, they don't have a catagory for either/or.

Anyhow, now the OP is aware of the possibility and can check to see if it's a feasible option in his/her case.

Reply to
nestork

I've read all the responses up to this date. Another expense to consider is that when converting from oil to any other fuel or electricity there is the expense of the removal of the oil in the tank and either filling the now empty buried tank with an appropriate filler (I would use concrete to prevent the tank caving in) or the removal of the above ground tank.

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Reply to
willshak

Good point, that is one other factor. And if it's an old tank or likely old, then it's one more MAJOR factor to consider in the decision to switch fuels. Meaning that even aside from switching to gas to save energy costs, an old oil tank is a problem even if you don't convert and continue using the old system. If it's in the basement and it starts to leak, I would think it would usually happen with a small leak that you'd probably smell, see, etc. before it gets really bad. But maybe they can suddenly spring bigger leaks too?

If it's underground, it can be leaking and you'd never know it until the ground is contaminated big time. And then it becomes a very expensive problem. I don't know what the best practice recommendations are, but if it were me, I'd be concerned about any tank that is 20+ years old for sure. And I'd be checking with neighbors on any experiences they've had with similar tanks. The age of the tank might be the thing that is the driving issue that makes converting to gas the best course of action.

Filling the tank with concrete wouldn't be my first choice. It creates another potential problem, ie that if you ever need to excavate that area for something, eg running some pipe, septic system, house addition, etc you now have a huge concrete mass. Sand or gravel sounds like a much better and cheaper alternative, which is what I've seen used here in NJ.

Reply to
trader4

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