Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?

From an expert investigation - maximum energy at a plug-in protector was 35 joules, and almost all cases under 1 joule, with a power line surge including those caused by a 100,000A lightning strike to the primary wire at an adjacent utility pole. The maximum energy wasn't even from the worst surge.

When the voltage at service panel busbars reaches about 6,000V there is arc-over to the enclosure. The voltage of the established arc is hundreds of volts. Since the enclosure is connected to the earthing system that dumps most of the surge energy to earth. Since the "ground" and neutral are also connected to the enclosure, the exposure beyond the panel if far less than imagined.

A strong surge will drive the voltage on the busbars to 6,000V and arc-over. With a weaker surge, a plug-in protector on a short branch circuit may keep the service panel voltage below arc-over. The 35 joule energy in the investigation was with one of those weaker surges.

I don't suggest that people use plug-in protectors. I suggest they make decisions based on science. Discussion centers on plug-in protectors because of the misinformation posted by westom (and other misinformation that has been posted).

Reply to
bud--
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Because square D says their whole house surge protectors are "non filtering" - iow, they do not address low energy or high frequency "noise" superimposed on the line - which a good "computer grade protection device" The spec on a relatively low-priced Noma says response time under 1 nanosecond, maximum current spike 39,000 amps, maximum voltage clamping 330 volys, and maximum surge energy 925 joules. It "absorbs transient energy by blocking power vsurges from ac power lines and phone/modem lines" The dual mode UPS filtering specs are: common mode noise rejection >60dB @ 100kHz Transverse mode noise rejection >80dB @ 100kHz Surge protection excedes IEEE 587/ANSI C62 41 Category A abd B

Reply to
clare

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

Are repairs surging?

Reply to
Tekkie®

trader_4 posted for all of us...

Sorry, that was 30+ years ago at a former neighbor and I only heard about i t from him. He usually didn't embellish things but I know there was a lot a digging and trucks around his house.

Reply to
Tekkie®

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com posted for all of us...

I touched one of these one time on the way to school when I was a kid and got shocked. I didn't tell my parents-they would have just told me to keep my hands off things that don't belong to me... I learned a lesson but I wonder if contributed to my lack of brain power...

Reply to
Tekkie®

All service panel protectors are "non-filtering". Filtering would require the protector to be wired in series with the service.

I have seen no evidence that "noise" is a problem. You feed "noise" into a switch-mode power supply and it is removed at the input DC conversion, which is a giant low-pass (zero frequency) filter.

You do not say what this is. Looks like a plug-in protector. "Absorbs" and "blocking" are technically incorrect, but probably more understandable. "Clipping" more accurately describes what happens. All MOV based protectors are fast enough (1 nanosecond).

From the NIST surge expert: "The fact of the matter is that nowadays, most electronic appliances have an inherent immunity level of at least 600 V to 800 V, so that the clamping voltages of 330 V widely offered by [surge protector] manufacturers are really not necessary. Objective assessment of the situation leads to the conclusion that the 330 V clamping level, promoted by a few manufacturers, was encouraged by the promulgation of UL Std 1449, showing that voltage as the lowest in a series of possible clamping voltages for 120 V circuits. Thus was created the downward auction of "lower is better" notwithstanding the objections raised by several researchers and well-informed manufacturers. One of the consequences of this downward auction can be premature ageing of [surge protectors] that are called upon to carry surge currents as the result of relatively low transient voltages that would not put equipment in jeopardy." If peak let-through is other than 330V there needs to be coordination between service panel and plug-in protectors.

I have seen no evidence that noise is a problem

If I am buying a UPS or plug-in protector I want it listed under UL1449, which is the surge protector standard, and means the device has been tested by UL. There are a couple other UL standards for phone and cable protection.

"Exceeds" means the manufacturer is claiming the device meets the standards (which are not UL1449).

Reply to
bud--

Noma filtered or surge protected power bar

Reply to
clare

Newer, just 10-15 years ago, they started adding some kind of resistor fuse to keep the supressor from catching fire. Don't us old ones.

I also took off my whole house supressor, when I learned here, mine was a fire starter. Best enclosed well in metal enclosure. Not sure about breaker devices. If they fail, the box innards could fry causin all kinds of sparks ?

Greg

Reply to
gregz

I have repaired electronic equiptement my entire adult life. I am 59.

turned my tv on one night and must of jumped a foot, lightning hit close by.

the tv was dead. found the bridge rectifier, had blown, it actually had exploded.

hada copier that acted up after storms. added a big MOV and had no more issues.

one day my mom had lightning strike her neighbors tree, killed the tree.

killed my moms garage door opener. i replaced the main board on the nearly brand new garage door opener.

lightning is screwey, it wipes out some things and leaves others untouched.

manufacturers of everything should have to pass a power line damage resistance test.

cheapening of everythng causes endless troubles

Reply to
bob haller

Lightning is not capricious. If all but invited inside, then lightning wil l hunt for a destructive connection to earth via appliances. It was incomi ng to everything. It found a best and destructive outgoing path only via a TV. In your mom's case, it found a best and outgoing path destructively v ia a garage door opener.

Both an incoming and outgoing path must exist to have damage.

Because it found a best path to earth destructively via that one appliance, then it need not blow through (overwhelm) protection in other appliances.

If a surge current is earthed BEFORE entering, then it need not hunt for ea rth via any appliance.

A surge would be incoming to everything. Only one (or some) item also made a best outgoing path to earth. If that path is not a properly earthed prot ector (ie rated at least 50,000 amps), then lightning finds a path, destruc tively, via some appliance. Protection (even 100 years ago) was always abo ut earthing BEFORE a surge enters a building. It is not capricious. It lo cates a best connection to earth harmlessly via a 'whole house' protector o r destructively via an appliance. Often only one or two appliances is dama ged by a surge that is incoming to everything.

Reply to
westom

Nuff said.

Reply to
trader_4

8 hours to turn off a gas supply?!?

-- =

A group of cowboys were branding some cattle. While they were out the cook saw a sheep tied to a post. Thinking it wa= s for that nights dinner he cooked it. That night after dinner the cowboys were all sulking and ignoring the co= ok. He pulled one aside and asked, "Did I screw up the cooking?" "No", the cowboy replied, "You cooked up the screwing."

Reply to
Mr Macaw

Did he?

Reply to
Mr Macaw

I have no ground rod. The grounding is done at the transformer (substation).

Reply to
Mr Macaw

I've seen surge protectors (plug in ones) melt in an office. The computers without one popped their PSU's bulk caps. The cause of this? Some workmen doing re-wiring confused the old UK with the new EU wiring colours and put two phases across a one phase outlet circuit. A large insurance claim was made, then I replaced all the bulk capacitors at 50p each :-)

Reply to
Mr Macaw

Is the computer owned by the UPS?

Reply to
Mr Macaw

underground wires can pick up surges if lightning hits a nearby tree.

Best bet is to unplug the washer when not in use.

Or buy one with mechanical controls.

Mark

Reply to
makolber

Are you counting an I-beam across the basement ceiling? I'd never seen that in residential until I saw my house, built in 1979. It has two of them.

Reply to
Micky

Well I'm no authority, but that sounds like low freon or a bad compressor. What are compressors like when they are bad? Do they work at all? Do they make a different noise? I don't know.

yes

Reply to
Tad Moore

If there is no steel in the foundation, bonded to the lally columns, the beam is not "building steel" and is not an electrode.

Reply to
gfretwell

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