Air conditioner outlet is 220 v; how can i run a 110v line off this?

[Mikepier]

Don't you mean the second takes 5A of each hot?

[Chip C]

Yes, this is the right approach, but it's unlikely that it's legal for a tenant or even a landlord to do such work; d-i-y electrical is usually limited to the homeowner in a single-family dwelling. And of course some places (Chicago? NY? Quebec?) prohibit it altogether.

Also, it's likely the present circuit uses black and red wires, in which case the one that's moved to the neutral (I'd recommend the red) should be tagged with white electrical tape in the panel and in the outlet box.

I have never seen a 220V window-mount A/C on sale; the trend is towards more and more efficiency which means much lower current draw, so new A/C units aren't the power-hungry things the older ones were. I doubt he'll regret having the 220V outlet converted.

Chip C Toronto

[Mikepier]

This might be a through the wall unit since he mentioned it was an apartment. In that case there are more A/C's on the market that could meet his needs and still get it in 220V.

[Ted]

Don't you mean the second takes 5A of each hot?

----------------------- No I don't. 5A off each hot would be 5a at 240v, which is only 1200w.

2400w is 10a off each hot.

The confusing part is that each hot is only 120v to ground, not 240v. They are only 240v to each other. So either way you have 20a on 120v hots; on a 120v circuit it all comes from one hot, on 240v it is split between two hots.

[Mark Lloyd]

A lot of 220V outlets in older houses have only TWO wires.

Considering three-wire outlets, if it's on a dedicated circuit (and not from a subpanel) that third wire isn't any different as to ground or neutral when it isn't being used.

[Gary H]

[snip]

It's the same 10A. Those 2 hots are in series through the 240V unit. The above makes it sound like there's 20A somewhere. There isn't.

[snip]

[Ted]

Imagine a multiwire circuit. One side has a 120w bulb on it, the other has nothing. There is 1a on one side, 0a on the other. 1a returns on the neutral. There is 1a. Okay so far?

Now put another 120w bulb on the other side. There are 2a, 1a on each side. 0a returns on the neutral. Still okay?

Now remove the neutral; nothing changes as nothing was returning on it anyhow. You still have 2a, 1 on each side. Almost there.

BUT, it is now a 240v circuit! And there are (drumroll please) 2a on it; 1 on each hot! There is absolutely no difference between a multiwire circuit and and 240v with neutral.

Can't make it any simpler.

[Mikepier]

ets say we have two 2400w air conditioners. One is 20a at 120v, and the

You are saying that there is 10A in each leg. Where is the 10A going? Not to the neutral obviously since it's not being used. The current flows from one feed to the other, and that total current is

10A. The way you make it sound its 20A total. If you had an amprobe on a 120V A/C at the panel (either on the hot or the neutral) you will read 20A. If you did the same with a 220V A/C you would get 10A through either feed. The end result is you use half the current, thus easing up demand on the panel.

[terry]

Simplest answer is: Ignore the 220 volt outlet. A 110 volt AC (with lower BTU output) will use less power so run an extension cord of reasonable gauge (not one of those teensy weensy Christmas tree light extensions with wires as thin as cotton thread) to a suitable outlet. And plug in your 110 volt air conditioner to that. You may have to make sure there is nothing else 'heavy' on that same circuit as the outlet you plug into; so get a long enough extension cord to pick an outlet on another circuit if necessary. Irritating if you have, say, a coffee-maker on and the AC cuts in and pops the breaker!

[Ted]

You are saying that there is 10A in each leg. Where is the 10A going? Not to the neutral obviously since it's not being used. The current flows from one feed to the other, and that total current is

10A. The way you make it sound its 20A total. If you had an amprobe on a 120V A/C at the panel (either on the hot or the neutral) you will read 20A. If you did the same with a 220V A/C you would get 10A through either feed. The end result is you use half the current, thus easing up demand on the panel.

---------------- You win, you are too ignorant for me!

[dpb]

terry wrote: ...

"Simple" maybe; "appropriate", no.... :(

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[Ted]

Simplest answer is: Ignore the 220 volt outlet. A 110 volt AC (with lower BTU output) will use less power so run an extension cord of reasonable gauge (not one of those teensy weensy Christmas tree light extensions with wires as thin as cotton thread) to a suitable outlet.

---------------------------- Thats the worst advice I have heard in a while. Unless he as a 600w A/C you are looking at a house fire.

[Mikepier]

Try that experiment with a TV and let me know if it works.

[Gary H]

Imagine 2 police checkpoints 100 feet apart on a highway. Checkpoint A has detected 50 cars passing between 4PM and 5PM. Checkpoint B has detected 50 cars during the same time period. Were 100 cars on that highway between 4PM and 5PM?

What you're saying is like saying there were 100 cars. Specifically,

10A (at the phase 1 breaker for that 240V load) and 10A (at the phase 2 breaker for that 240V load), which you added improperly the same way I added 50 and 50 in my example.

If you disagree, at least try thinking about it.

The fact you can add NUMBERS doesn't mean it's a legitimate operation in the real world.

[Ted]

Sorry, I thought you would know what a multiwire circuit was. You probably have to know basic electricity to understand it.

[Gary H]

[snip]

Knowing basic electricity doesn't do as much good as it should, when you don't actually think about it.

Considering your 2-light example:

L1

------------breaker1---------light1-----------\\ | neutral |

----------------------------------------------* "A" | L2 |

------------breaker2----------light2----------/

Where both lights are equal.

1. 1A in flowing through breaker1
2. no current is flowing through the neutral

WHERE is the current coming in through breaker1 going?

[Colbyt]

You are renting. You have no rights to do anything.

Contact your landlord and ask them.

Colbyt

[RBM]

In over 35 years in the electrical business, I've never seen an airconditioner outlet with four holes, and I've certainly never installed one. Only in Hallerb's fantasies are neutrals required to be run, despite the fact that there is no place to attach them

[RBM]

4 wire is not required by NEC for a 240 volt air-conditioner outlet, unless the manufacturer made a unit that required a neutral for some reason. Haller is being Haller as usual. Why would a neutral be required when there is no place on the outlet to connect it

[dpb]

Didn't say (nor mean to imply it) was; only referring to 3- vs 4-wire.

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