Advice on buying HVAC system

[Dave in Lake Villa]

Do a google : 'Buying heating/cooling systems' . Talk with your neighbors on who theyre happy with. When you get proposals, be sure and get them to provide addresses and phone numbers of customers that have had an installation performed then take a look at the job . Check with your local BBB to be sure they havent had any complaints filed against them. Go to your local courthouse and see if they have been a Defendant in a Law Suit ; the clerk will give you the books to look thru at no charge (in alphabetical order) . Dont give them anymore than 50% deposit. Go to Consumer Reports Oct. of 1998 for a 4 page article on different efficiency residental systems , how brands stack up, and how to choose a Contractor. Go to your local Village Building Dept. and ask if there are any hvac Contractors which they have banned from working in your town. Take out a Permit for the installation so the job can be properly inspected by a Village Inspector who will act on your best behalf ; the Permit fee will be worth it to give you peace of mind.

[Dave in Lake Villa]

'Most have a low end single speed 80% furnace with cheap low seer AC. Then top line 93-94.5 % efficient furnaces with VS DC motors for more comfort , humidity removal, lower electric usage and very high seer AC units. It depends on where you live- your heating cooling needs and cash you have. '

It also depends on how long you are planning on living in your home ; Variable Speed DC motor furnaces will take a very long time to get a payback on ; they get an arm and a leg for them . IF youre planning on staying in the house for 20 plus years, then okay...otherwise, they are only good to impress the Friday night Card Game regulars (if they are so duped). Weigh up how much you run the Cooling...if you are not big a/c buffs, then going with an extreme EER a/c unit is pointless due to a long payback period. If you want to save a good 25% of the cost...go with a Rheem, Goodman , or Tempstar brand over hyped up advertised brands like Trane, Carrier, and Lennox. Each one of these brands will last as long as the others so long as they are properly maintenanced.

[U will be assimilated]

DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON.. HACK ALERT..dave's giving out advice again

[m Ransley]

No Dave wrong again but since you sell "trailer equipment " and are not a dealer of anything but Goodman you lie. Does Goodman have VS DC??? No . As I posted the numbers before, a 6 yr payback can be seen with VS DC. You never counterd my numbers but hid. Not only do you get more efficiency, but more humidity removal , using a humidistat-thermostat. You can even control Fan Speed at the thermostat! You told him to read Consumer Reports , atta boy Dave , read it again Dave, the Carrier Infinity VS DC was rated "A Best Buy " in Comsumer Reports. And I bet it is more efficient than Goodman .

[U will be assimilated]

OH NO!!!....Not some MORE bad advice from well known hvac HACK and all around fundy idiot, dave?

Why should this not surprise anyone?

[jaykchan]

I read the book called "This Old House, Heating Ventilation and Cooling" from the HVAC guy in the "This Old House" TV show. That was a good reading. It gives you a lot of pros and cons of various systems and how they are related to the regional need.

What he suggested is to choose the right HVAC contractor instead of choosing the right system. This sounds like a good advice because there are too many variables in choosing the right HVAC systems, and there are regional requirement to sort out, and many tasks require a licensed professional to install. You will have to deal with a HVAC contractor anyway. Unfortunately, I don't remember whether he mentioned anything about how to choose the right contractor other than making sure the contractor belongs to a national-wise association or something.

Jay Chan

[jaykchan]

The difficult part is to find a good HVAC contractor. When we asked contractors about setting central cooling in my house, we got many different advices, and we were not in the position to know which one was the right one. The same thing happened when we ask contractors to fix the roof in my house. We got confused. Hopefully, there is a good trick to tell which one is good.

There must be a good way to tell. I believe each trade has a way to locate a good contractor. For example, if someone wants to look for a doctor, one good way is to ask the nurse. Nurses know _exactly_ which doctors are good and which ones to avoid. I assume that there must be a similar trick in HVAC industry to locate a good contractor. I really doubt that asking our friends or neighbors will be any help because they probably know even less. This is just like this is not a good idea to ask a patient to recommend a doctor. A patient will rate how the doctor "talks" more than anything; hence, he will always give a good rating to a doctor who is probably more like a salesman than a doctor.

Jay Chan

[Zyp]

Ask your neighbors, friends, and relatives. They'd give you advice on who to choose, and NOT to choose. What their experience has been, etc. Besides, people love to give recommendations, good or bad.

[John Harlow]

Some have suggested asking the parts counter people at the local supply store..

[Bob G.]

=================================

Good question ... Both my sons are HVAC "pros" ...Both are employees...not owners.. and both have about 10 years experience not alot but enough. to know how to be dangerious...

Ask ...LOCAL frineds, for sure...BUT also ask some local business people...like your Physiciam, your lawyer, your Gas Station owner...etc... these people need HVAC service ... No way your Doctor is going to have office visits if his A/C is shut down for a week in August..

That said... The boys have told me many many times that the Brand of the installed unit is not really the important thing... IT is the installer...and the guy who comes out to your house and does the calculations (Manuel J)... PLUS how they actually do the installation...

The failure rate of brand "A" is at best, only slightly better then Brand "B" at best.... They do not like Trane however and I can not remember exactly why...

Anyway they each have quit jobs because they had to do fast, and dirty, installations not given enough time to do it right so corners HAD and were cut..Took them a few years to find an employer who paid well and insisted on good solid work...most paid well but lost all interest in the customer even before the installation was done..before they got paid...

Duct Tape is a wonderful tool...yea sure....

Bob Griffiths

[John Harlow]

Not for ducts however.

I hear superglue is the tool of choice for gas furnace sensors though.

[Monte]

replying to NoSpam99989, Monte wrote: Most of the brands of HVAC equipment are equivalent on durability, efficiency, and life span. Some brands the parts are outrageously priced one furnace has a venter assembly that is around $1000, avoid air conditioners that use microchannel type condenser coils currently have a high failure rate. My current brand is Goodman. Probably the most important thing is proper design and installation of the duct work. 40+ HVAC&R tech

[trader_4]

+1

All good advice. When I did my research about ten years ago, the reliability reports looked about the same whether it was Goodman, Rheem or Carrier or Trane. Also G and R I think tend to use common parts that more suppliers carry and that probably cost less. I went with a Rheem and it's been fine except for the stupid ECM motor on the condenser fan failing. It would have been $300+ just for the motor. I put in a basic PSC motor that fit exactly, cost me $90. That ECM is an example of how not to save energy. The amount that fan uses is so small, it's not worth having a motor with fancy electronics, especially in an outside environment. I have an ECM blower motor too, that's been fine and I think I've saved enough on electric by now that it's more than paid for itself.

I also agree that I'd rather have sub-prime eqpt than a sub-prime installer. You could get the most expensive eqpt and a bad installer will have it screwed up.

[gfretwell]

Those savings go up in smoke as soon as that blower motor takes a crap. The motor for my Trane was $800 but they said not to replace the motor unless I also replaced the $800 board. You are not saving $1600 in 10 years.

[trader_4]

That's why I recommended staying with Goodman, Rheem, Rudd. Trane, Carrier, are no more reliable, but more likely to use volume parts that you can easily source. They are also more likely to hose you with their own thermostat, some proprietary link, etc. Replacing the board too sounds like CYA and more $$$ for the service company. I would have sent them packing. My whole two stage gas furnace with variable speed ECM blower cost about $1600 when I bought it, retail.

Here are some Rheem ECM motors, $340 to $550. Note they also have just the electronics end for $135. I was skeptical of the ECM stuff years ago too. But at these prices for something that is used a lot and that uses significant energy, I think they make sense. Nine years here and very happy.