A Serious Question About Building Codes And Safety

On 1/16/2013 7:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: ...

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the door herself by grabbing the knob.

I don't know if there is anything adresses this. But, it sure makes sense.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

TDD

In any of those cases, a door that swings out from the stairs would have helped. And, she might be alive.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the door herself by grabbing the knob.

One house I looked at before we decided on our present one had the basement stairway (without a door) immediately across the narrow hallway from the front door. I could imagine somebody welcoming visitors and stepping back too far and plunging down the stairs. It may not have been a code violation, but it certainly seemed an unwise design.

Perce

And at least around here, you have to have a new home being built inspected, in which case code could indeed prevent this, provided the code inspector found it. I suspect it already is code in most places.

I've never seen a door open over stairs like that. It seems very odd. For one thing, it puts the door in the way, right where you could hit it with your head on the way up the stairs. I have seen doors open into stairwells where there is a substantial landing there. One that is large enough so that even if you pushed against the door and opened, you'd fall onto the landing, not down the stairs.

In my neck of the woods there are rules regarding this. The preferred approach is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

Having said that, I've seen lots of local examples of older construction (25+ years) where doors open toward (and over) stairs.

That is terribly sad. I'm of the age (and experience as a nurse) that I am paranoid about trip/fall hazards. We have such a stairway which we both check more often than we check the exterior doors...it has a very sturdy swiveling hook to latch the door...if left unlocked, it is not hard to imagine someone just leaning against or bumping the door and going down the stairs. When we get settled, I'm going to rig a ramp to slide bags of salt and laundry baskets down :o)

Keep up to date on eye exams, keep lighting sufficient to see obstacles (I have night lights all over the place).

Our front steps are redwood stained wood with no hand rail; rarely use the front door, but would like to find something (other than paint-on granules) to make the steps slip proof. Moved too late in the year to take care of the steps, but want to make it safer for visitors.

My only serious fall has been the one time I tried out my son's skateboard. Possible mild concussion? Worked that night as usual, so was in hospital in case anything serious showed up :o)

is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

That is in the building code most places R311.7.5 in the ICC residential code

Hi, Any amount of code could't prevent an accodent.

Remember, code is the worst you are allowed to build.

(you can and should build better than code - it is a minimum standard not a desirable one)

approach is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

years) where doors open toward (and over) stairs.

Hi, My house is 20 years old with fully finished basement. No door to staircase going down to basement. Staircase is U shaped with two landings and hand rails along the way down.

In the UK doors must open on to a landing, not directly on to stairs. Also long uninterupted stairs are not allowed, there has to be landings at intervals.

They minimise accidents. Quite likely this one wouldn't have happened with a properly designed staircase.

This sort of thing would be covered in a senior housing safety checklist like the following...

On Wednesday 16 January 2013 14:58 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in alt.home.repair:

British Building Regs (Part K) say there much be 400mm clearance between the open door leaf and the edge of the first step.

approach is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

years) where doors open toward (and over) stairs.

When I lived in Queens, NYC, we also had a basement without a door. I don't know if there ever was a door and there was no evidence neither. It is possible in the OP scenario that the door was changed to suit the owners' desires regardless of what (if any) was in the code. And as someone else pointed out, I believe in most places there is a code to address this. I don't know tho when the code came about for those places that use it.

We do have some codes that are a big help. Hand rails on staircases, grounded outlets, and so on. I think a correct door swing could have made a difference.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

Hi, Any amount of code could't prevent an accodent.

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W/ an elderly person off balance I don't see it being at all unlikely even w/ the landing they wouldn't/couldn't just pitch right on down unless it were a very long landing. Most basement accesses don't have sufficient clearances to allow a very long and who knows--w/ an elderly person it may have been enough even if there was a landing and only a couple of steps to have been fatal. Of course, _just_ wrong and even a younger person could do the neck w/o going all the way down a flight...

There's simply too little known here about the actual situation to say anything except "too bad"...

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You'd have to be leaning way forward to hit your head on the door coming up the sstairs. I'm in a 40s something house, basement stair doors opens into the stairway.

Harry K