a different? water heater problem?

[mm]

Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.

I know I should call them first, but I have to disconnect the computer to call them. So, if you don't mind....

A) Do stores only remove the old one if they actually install the new one, or would it be enough if I had totally disconnected the old one before they got here?

B) Do delivery men have some special clever way to get the old heavy one out? Or is it just that there are two of them, or that they are strong? (It was easy for me to take the wh from the store and down into the basement. The only problem I had last time was getting it up the stairs, which also turn 180 degrees at a landing. With just me and someone a lot smaller than I am.)

Today I found the water spraying out** from behind the plastic escutcheon around the drain valve on my Sears electric water heater.

**in many, but not all directions. Maybe 180 degrees of the circle had water spraying from it.

Out of curiosity, do you think this is this an unusual problem, or just a variation on the usual leaking wh?

BTW, the plastic pan I put under the heater helped a lot. But because it was spraying and not dribbling or coming out of the T&P valve and down the tube, it certainly didn't catch everything. Last time my wh dribbled when it leaked.

[Speedy Jim]

You have to negotiate with the installer (whoever) over taking out the old tank. And whether they dump it at your curb or actually take it away.

In some cities, a heater on the curb will trigger an inspection. (!)

A 2-wheel dolly/handtruck makes carrying loads up the stairs easier.

------- Back to the spraying. If the valve itself is plastic body, the body may have fractured. This was very common some years back. In that event, there is nothing wrong with the tank.

To replace the valve may involve sawing *lengthwise* thru the valve and then chopping out or (maybe) unscrewing it.

Jim

[Grandpa]

Jim's right, it will depend upon your area. But I second his idea of checking the drain valve for a cracked body. Replacing the drain valve will be a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the whole tank. It should take less than an hour to be sure before you commit to a new tank. Just turn off the water to the tank, and drain it out. Then see if you can unscrew the valve body off and inspect it. Replace it with a nipple, ball valve, hose bib combination if it appears to be the culprit.

[mm]

Duh. (Slaps foreheat) Better answer about this to folow later.

Oh, gosh yes, it sounds much easier. If it works, I'll be very grateful to both of you.

I've got the cold water on again, and I'll be taking sponge baths from the stove or microwave, or going to someone else's to clean up for a few days, but I'll get back with a followup.

[hallerb]

if the fitting split then replace it,

if its lkeaking at the fittings the tank is failing, just replace it.

in pennsylvania theres a 7% sales tax on cash and carry

have installed no sales tax.

with your situation might be easier to get installed,rovides muscular guys for removal.

[mm]

All that follows assumes the valve is not the problem and I have to replace the tank.

I read this last night -- thank you -- and then forgot to ask when I called this morning. Dang.

So I asked other questions and Sears charges 239 for installation, and removal of the old one is free. But if you don't get installation, they won't even deliver it! I guess because it is the installer who does the delivery.

Plus a 22 dollar permit charge in Baltimore Co. and she thought maybe I need an expansion tank for 80 dollars (although none of the problems mentioned here have I had.)

Plus there was an added fee of course for a pan underneath, but I already have one so no fee. That is just the kind of reason I like to do this stuff myself. I put in extra time to get the length jussst right, so the pan was just where it should be, and to run a pipe to the sump, with a right hand turn, behind a warddrobe and file cabinet full of stuff, and had I had this installed last tiem, I can't imagine anyone but me -- well would they even connect the pan to the sump or would that be up to me -- and because of the warddrobe and file cabinet it would be almost impossible to do when the water heater was in place.

I'm going to find the thread about cutting the old one in half, and scooping out the sediment.

[mm]

blah blah.

Interesting things I learned last night on the web. I got Sears last time, because the distance between the pipes was the same as the original and I thought that would make it much easier to install. I didn't want the zigzag pipes I once saw. But now I realize I should have shortened or lengthened the horizontal pipe at the ceiling and there would have been no zigzag. Or course I had never sweated pipe before, let alone next to wood, so maybe I made the right choice.

This post is just to express surprise at the price structure.

I looked at the Sears webpage last night

So this time Sears doesn't have 52 but they have 55, which is 130 pounds. And they have 66 gallons, which for some reason is 175 pounds. 20% more capacity, but 33% heavier. Usually it is the other way around, That making something which is empty inside, it only takes a little more weight to make the capacity much more.

Another interesting thing is that it only costs 10 dollars to go from a 9 year guarantee to a 12 year guarantee, and that includes 3 inches of insulation instead of just 2 1/2, with an R-value of 24 instead of

1. It uses foam insulation which is light, and the better one only weighs 3 more pounds.

And the better one costs only 20 dollars more for the 55 gallon, and

10 dollars more for the 66 gallon.

But the price difference from 55 to 66 gallons is 310 to 430, or 330 to 440. Now we're talking about a 33% increase in price for a 17 percent increase in volume. That's a greater discrepancy than the weight to volume discrepancy.

But otoh, if you ignore capacity and compare price to weight, 330 to

440 dollars is almost exactly the same as 130 to 175 pounds. So maybe that accounts for price, if they are charging by the pound, but why is the weight difference so great?

And the tank is the same height, and only 1.5 inches more in diameter, so what about it weighs so much more?

IIRC, people here recommended a big tank.

P.S. Last time I bought 52 gallons. The house was built with 80 gallons. For 3 bedrooms. Isn't that incredibly unusual, especially in a low priced home? It is so big Sears, doesn't stock it, and I think Lowes and HD have nothing on display that is bigger than 40 gallons. Surely one person shouldn't need even 66 gallons, but it apparently costs no more to run it, according to the Sears specs, and because I take baths, I've actually run out of hot water with 52 gallons. (although I could have solved that by making the water hotter.) Sears doesn't even sell an 80 gallon tank now, and AOSmith, who made the 80 gallon tank, doesn't seem to sell retail, but I'm curious and I found on the web the number for a local plumbing supply, that I will call.

[hallerb]

BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER! Heck it costs a bit more but never run out has nice advantages:)

If Gas look for 75,000 BTU standard tanks are 35,000 BTU or less. I went from a 40 gallon 34,000 BTU to a 50 gallon 75,000 BTU tank and doubled my first hour capacity.

Home depot and lowes generally have larger tanks either in stock or at the warehouse for next day delivery.

Cutting a tank apart to remove from area, well just try it sometime: ( itchy fiberglass, sharp tin outer covering, messy dirty water, awkard job. been there done that never again:( stuff doesnt unscrew after all those years, then its a hazard from garbage guys to pick up lots of razor sharp edges.....

I buy the longest warranty biggest tank.

small tank has larger thermal stress when going from hot to empty.

large tank tends to float along...... easier on tank in my opinion.

the more expensive tanks have foam insulation, and often brass rather than plastic drain valves. sometimes you get what you pay for

[mm]

I'm sure they do, but I don't think they have bigger than 50 at the store, and they don't have them on the website, so I'll have to go there and find someone to tell me about them. That's my least favorite thing.