Sanyo Ductless Mini Split Air Conditioners?

[Gene Haygood]

Does anyone know where I can get info on Sango ductless mini splits or whether I can buy them online? The website I used to find them on no longer exists :(

[Gordon T]

[Steve]

Keep in mind that any HVAC equipment bought over the internet has *NO* warranty.

[Gordon T]

Yeah, I checked on that. In fact that is completly untrue. The warranty is void only if an unlicensed contractor installs it. Otherwise, it is illegal for a company to void a warranty on a product based on method it was obtained if if was obtained from a authorized distributor. It is impossible to police.

If you search for an AC distributor on the internet, abnd you find a local hvac installer, and you call the installer and buy a system over teh phone, what is teh difference?

I think the difference might mean whether their is a "shopping cart" used and unit is purchased unassisted.

[Steve]

Not impossible to police... there is this little thing called a serial number... this is required for any warranty claims. Read the fine print on the warranty papers.

The difference is that no ligitmate company is going to install any equipment that was not purchased through them. If you can find somebody to install it, they will tell you and write on the reciept that there is no warranty whatsoever on that system. FWIW, an awful lot of those companies who are trying to sell equipment online are charging as much for it as your local installer would. Those internet "distributors" are also being reported to the manufacturers. The manufacturers track all equipment by serial number, and will also pull their equipment from those distributors.

Something else to consider, I have had several very expensive jobs that I have done over the last month to straighten out the messes made by the "installers" that put in the stuff bought over the internet. The customer would have saved a couple of thousand to have purchased the equipment through, and installed by a legitimate contractor. The one I finished up yeaterday cost the customer almost $3500 to straighten out the mess, and get their 2 systems to operate as they were designed to.... with no factory warranty because it was purchased online, no permit was pulled for the original installation.... oh, and those 2 systems were less than a year old. The "installer" went bankrupt 1 month after it was installed.

Its your money, you can do what you want. Caveat emptor.

[PaxPerPoten]

There is no way that I would risk My Contractors license($180K), Bond and Insurance($3 mil) on a home owners Internet purchased equipment. Also my insurance would balk at covering such an installation as it would consider that we have taken on the liability of the manufacturer. However, If a Homeowner wishes to take on the risk themselves with a Home owners permit and building inspection..That is fine with me. But do consider that Inspections no longer are liable for damages if things go South later on. In fact your own insurance will give you a Helluva a run around before paying damages on home owner jobs. In fact on contractor jobs..The Home owners insurance companies go out of their way to try and lay liability on the contractor. If your burning home damages the neighbors property...Their insurance will go after you..and your insurance may not cover that contingency. Good luck...There are a lot of Snake pits in life now a days.

[Scott Lurndal]

An insurance company may not deny a covered loss due to poor workmanship by a homeowner in the United States, in spite of the FUD promoted by contractors.

Read your policy - it by law must spell out what is covered and any exceptions.

scott

[PaxPerPoten]

You are totally incorrect. I point out the thousands of lawsuits on just this subject in California and New York states alone. I also belong to several Con tractor associations including some International ones. Why do you think Insurance companies have whole squadrons of Attorneys on staff? Insurance companies make money on premiums and Agencies receive Bonuses predicated on how much money they DON'T pay out. You do realize that many states require an inspection before a home can be sold to another? If there is a hack job..Then it must be torn out and redone by a licensed contractor of whatever trade is required. Also read your policy where it says it is voided by illegal actions...Which could be construed as home brew dangerous remodeling. Why should some insurance company be responsible for your malice of forethought f*ck-up?

I had my Lawyers read it. If you are stupid enough to tempt the fates..Be my guest. My Business covers several states and has been in existence a very long time.

[Steve]

Y'all can do or say what you want.... my company policy is real simple.

We *WILL NOT* install any parts, refrigerant or equipment that was not purchased from us, strictly because of warranty and liability issues.

[default]

I understand your agenda (and ire). But the fact is that you should either learn to adapt or become extinct. Does no good at all to bellyache because the environment is changing; adapt and prosper or go extinct, them's the choices.

Self install ductless units are going up all over the world and many of them are installed by less than competent homeowners and professionals alike. With time, they will become easier and more foolproof. There's at least one internet supplier that does warranty the equipment against botched self installs (or so his web site proclaims) and there's at least one minisplit system that uses quick connect hoses (for better or worse).

I bought a self install kit (heat pump) and it has been doing a great job for over two years without a bit of problem. My electric bill is much lower. The only gripe I have was with the supplied refrigerant lines. Great if I didn't want to shorten them to match the installation, but the copper tubing was far too brittle to form easily

- wanted to kink with just a gentle radius bend and I ended up buying a chromed flaring tool and lubricating it with silicon before I could get perfect flares. (took over thirty practice flares before I had it down pat - and I've done this before without the hassle on soft tubing)

Make a system with flexible tubes and quick connects or just use a packaged chilled water system and it would be fool proof enough that the average home owner could do it.

The electrical install for me was super easy too. I had base board electric heating. Thermostat was replaced with a two pole switch, conduit to the outside required disconnect, then a water tight pigtail to the compressor. They supplied the control cable and condensate lines. I did add some in-line fuses for the control circuit - their supplied cable was only 16 awg - for a circuit fused at 30 amps?

Anyhow, learn to embrace change and turn it into profit. The world changes faster and faster as technology advances. Adapt or perish.

[john]

Foretting the insults for a minute, a very long time is not forever. I worked for a contractor in NYC for several years. They were big enough that on some jobs where they were the subcontractor, the primary went bankrupt so that company took over and finished the job as the primary. This company sadly is out of business today. I have no idea why. When I ran work for them, they were doing well, making money.

I recently bought a flip house in Florida. The house had an R-22 system with a badly rusted out furnace. The flipper replaced the furnace with a new one that can be used for R-22 or R-410a. Since they retained the R-22 can outside they changed the orifice and the unit runs fine. No permit was pulled to change out the furnace.

A side note. I am from Arizona where I owned a 1086 sq ft 2x2 home. It had a 3 ton Goodman can with a another (don't remember) brand furnace. I was completely satisfied with the house and A/C unit, though the entire development was built in 2005-06 and 8 of the original HVAC units have been replaced for around $7500 each. I looked at one of them and while the house was built in 06' the unit was built in 1998. I have to wonder where it sat for 6 years before it was set at this address. Used? Could be. In Florida this house has a 2 - 1/2 ton Goodman on 1553 sq ft and it too works just fine with temps outside above 100°F. Some day I may have to replace the older can outside here, installed in 1998. Then maybe it will last another 20 years. Regards.... John

[PaxPerPoten]

Furnace?? I hope you mean a Central air Unit.

with a new one that can be used for R-22 or R-410a. Since

Does that make it a legal install? As for changing from R22 to R410A... That is a questionable practice as the system requires a very through clean out of all mineral oil.

[PaxPerPoten]

I certainly hope that you do not expect me to disagree. ;-p