Has anyone tried this refrigerant yet? I am considering it for some heat
recovery chillers and looking for input. MO29(R-422D),MO59(R-417A) and
MO79(R-422A) are all listed as R22 replacements..Why is Dupont developing
more than one ISCEON replacement for 22?Why is 410 the manufacturers choice
for new equipment over these other HFC replacements?
Why not use:
This list just keeps growing...
Pretty soon we'll have to carry 20 tanks for recovery purposes.
However, the One-Shot tank is the exact solution to that problem. :-)
Check with the compressor manufacturers... the big problem is not the
refrigerant, but whats *IN* the blend...namely Butane.
Think FLAMMABLE and EXPLOSION HAZARD in resi and light commercial
This is according to the Copeland rep that dropped by the class I was in
I have heard both sides of this conversation.
Butane is a flammable/explosive gas.
But, they say that isn't a concern when used in refrigerants, as the mixture
and combination to get a combustionable flame is almost none existent.
Material CAS Number %
1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane 811-97-2 31.5
Pentafluoroethane 354-33-6 65.1
Isobutane 75-28-5 3.4
This product is not flammable in air at temperatures up to
100 deg. C (212 deg. F) at atmospheric pressure. However,
mixtures of this product with high concentrations of air at
elevated pressure and/or temperature can become combustible
in the presence of an ignition source. This product can
also become combustible in an oxygen enriched environment
(oxygen concentrations greater than that in air). Whether a
mixture containing this product and air, or this product in
an oxygen enriched atmosphere becomes combustible depends on
the inter-relationship of 1) the temperature 2) the
pressure, and 3) the proportion of oxygen in the mixture. In
general, this product should not be allowed to exist with
air above atmospheric pressure or at high temperatures, or
in an oxygen-enriched environment. For example: This
product should NOT be mixed with air under pressure for leak
testing or other purposes.
Experimental data have also been reported which indicate
combustibility of HFC-134a, a component in this blend, in
the presence of chlorine.
I think I answered my own question about why the choice for manufacturers is
R-410.All the other replacements have a much lower discharge temperature
making them not as good as R22 for heating applications eg. heat pumps or
heat recovery chillers etc.
i like the "nu-22" mfg by Icor in indianapolis
i've used it on several retrofits, with no problems at all
it seems to show a lot of promise
Its *still* got Butane in it, and use of it will void any and all Copeland
compressor warrantys. If you want to take that chance, then knock yourself
out. When I get Service Bullitins from copeland, and/or the equipment
manufacturers that says its ok to use for a R-22 "drop-in" replacement, then
I will think about it. Until then, I don't want that kind of liability.
Unless I miss my guess, around January 2010, the *retail* price of R-22 will
be around $100 per pound, and go up from there. Yes R-22 will still be
available as R-12 is now.....but whos going to want to pay the price?? The
ones I feel for are the ones that are still being sold R-22 systems. Give it
5 - 8 years when the evap coils start going away. There is going to be a lot
of really pissed off home owners that thought they were getting a "deal" on
the their new systems, and the guy that put it in is long gone..
Gotta love the lowest bidders, and the home owners that shop price alone.
They will be providing my livelyhood for many years to come :-)
Come on Steve, R-12 never even hit the $100 mark.
With all of the R-22 replacements I don't think 22 will go as high as R-12.
Well, I still sell, install and service R-22 systems. I'm not cheap by no
means and I plan on being around to service my clients for a long time to
come. You have to realize that there are still R-12 units in service today.
Just how long ago was R-12 cut from the production lines? R-22 will be no
different, trust me.
November 15, 1995 for R-12 [you don't remember?]
2010 is the stop on new R-22 equipment.
Speaking of towns BTW: Amboy, California just sold last year for under
$500,000 and you got your own auto shop, coffee shop, gas station, hotel,
and post office. [The post office is still in operation.] And an air strip
with two run-ways and radio tower.
The R-22 "drop-ins" are designed to work with existing mineral oils. If you
want to convert to something other than a "drop-in", just replace the oil
with POE. The cost all around is high either way.
I can't believe the variance though on the priceing from what we pay in
California compared to the East Coast. Man what a difference. But then
we're currently paying over $3.00 a gallon for fuel too.
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