Update: Cotton Burr Compost *Does* Contain GM Material

Here is the response from Back to Nature re: cotton burr compost containing genetically modified material.

Another good product lost to the Frankencrop industry... IMO.

Care Charlie

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In brief, our raw material comes from several gins on the South Plains. What they have, we get. Some cotton is genetically altered. It may ease your concern a bit to learn that in recent years the EPA has decreed that all chemicals used on cotton must be bio-degradable within two weeks. The composting process (4 months at temperatures not exceeding 150 F) effectively eliminates any trace of carbon based chemicals, pathogens, weed seeds and harmful organisms. As members of the United States Compost Council, we regularly submit samples for testing. Our products meet the USCC's standards. Personally, I would be more concerned about the chemicals than whether the cotton has been genetically altered. However, If you are uncomfortable with our product, there is certainly no obligation to use it. We appreciate and understand your concerns. Thanks,

N. Warren Johnson Back To Nature / Garden-Ville Cell: 214-704-7329 Fax: 940-440-0636 Email: nwj972 at/remove/change yahoo.com

Reply to
Charlie
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Like the present melanin scandal in pet, poultry and, pork feeds, the use of GMOs makes us all guinea pigs. It it safe? The FDA crosses their fingers. GMOs produce unique proteins as the try to integrate genetic material from different species. What happens when these proteins are devoured by soil organism. What are ramifications when genetic drift occurs? Grown in hermetically sealed greenhouses for research may be justifiable but released to the environment and mainlined into our food source can only be called greed. So what Orwellian brand name do you use for Franken Crops?, "Back to Nature", of course.

Vote with your wallet folks.

- Bill Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Reply to
William Rose

Almost all of our food is genetically modified, either through selection by agricultural scientists over the past 10 millennia, or through genetic engineering. GMOs may contain modified proteins, but the modifications are planned and controlled. Nature does the same thing constantly and on a completely random basis. If that were not so, the fresh organically grown tomatoes you enjoy would still be toxic, and corn would look like rye grass.

Why be concerned about a *proteins devoured by soil organism*? Once torn down into the basic amino acids, nucleotides etc, GM anything are completely harmless. A given GM protein itself might be of concern as an allergen or toxin, but it is still made from the same 21+ amino acids of which all proteins are made. The FDA didn't just cross their fingers, but even most well educated people can not understand the real issues involved. There are dangers inherent in GM foods, but direct danger to humans who consume them is very much less (several orders of magnitude less) than those posed by pesticides, food processing and preservation procedures already in common practice. The real dangers are far more subtle, such as compensatory mutations in the pests a given GM is meant to help control.

It is certainly a moot debate. The choices for most of the world are really rather straightforward. Eat GM food, starve, or quit breeding. I vote for the latter, but it does not seem likely.

-RT

Reply to
Rick

Hi Rick,

I disagree with your statements that it is a moot debate and that the world has three choices (though I do agree that greatly reduced breeding is the best option). Much of the world is rejecting GM crops. It is the Big Money Folks that tell the world what limited choices they have. Ourway or the Dieway.

You give credit to the FDA. The FDA has become a regulatory stamp for the big money concerns: ie; BigPharma, Monasanto, on and on ad nauseum. To use an FDA stamp of approval is BS or to even assume that the FDA any longer gives a fat baby's ass about anything but $$$$ is being naive.

Do you really believe that the GM folks are concerned about the starving people in this world? Or the FDA? Or Monsanto?

You are correct that nature and scientists have been improving varieties over the millennia, but even with hybridization, one's control is taken away by having to continually buy new seed. Saved seed from hybrids is a no go. One can only save seed and expect stable performance from stable plant varieties. That is the way to go. Genetic diversity and stability. Heirlooms have been developed that are regionally stable and productive and allow *individuals* to have control of their food, *not* the fascists.

GM crops are taking hybridization a step further and putting even greater control of the food supply in the hands of "them". And they who control the food supply control the people.

You recognize the inherent dangers in GM food. What is your data... your proof... that ingestion is not a bad thing? Why were Starlink contaminated products recalled if there is not doubt? Why have many countries banned the importation of GM products?

Perhaps I misunderstood the context of your post, but GM crops are

*not a good thing* ... IMO.

Have a Good Life Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Let's get the bottom line up front here. If the top 1% have their way, in a short time we will all be renting our homes, our furniture and, our clothes. Even now, we are all being farmed for our incomes. It's called consumerism.

That said, who plans and controls the proteins in GMOs? No one. If the guinea pigs don't drop stone dead immediately, you can bank the money and blame it on the underfunded, over-regulated FDA (The Politics of Food by Marion Nestle). Mother Nature has had about 4.5 billion years to work out accommodations between organisms and environment. GMOs would have you believe that they can strike a symbiotic relationship with nature in a couple of decades.

Proteins do indeed break down, for the most part, into innocuous amino acids but that is like saying a rock tied to a stick is a natural product. My organic chemistry professor used to tell us that we only needed to know about six atoms (hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, sulfur and, something or other). But nearly an infinite number of compounds can be made from those simple building blocks. At present, the food pipeline is filled with only the best fillers and extenders, anti-oxidants, artificial colors, artificial flavors, stabilizers, antibiotics and their residues, insecticides and their residues, herbicides and their residues, feces, and now Franken proteins that work their way through the cell metabolism like sand through a swiss watch. Hunky dory, just peachy keen. Maybe, just for arguments sake (but I don't believe a whit of it), all these compounds are individually safe but, . . .what happens when they interact (react) with each other? Do we get outbreaks of Type II diabetes, asthma, autism, cancer, hypertension, environmental allergies? Please add to the list as you will.

It took three years for the government, back when it was fairly friendly to consumers, to get thalidomide off the market when you could see that women taking it were giving birth to babies without arms and legs. How long do you think it would take to get something subtle off the market? The thing is, GMOs fix a problem that we don't have yet, at an undetermined price to humans and the environment.

I'm sure you know the story of Percy Schmeiser and his contaminated canola beans

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The Mexicans are having the same problem. Crops are being infected with GMO genes so you can't save your seeds and plant them any more because your seeds have copy-righted genes in them and you owe Monsanto beaucoup bucks. Traditional seeds are under attack. Instead of GMOs being grown in hermetically sealed green houses, it is the natural plants that must be sequestered to avoid copyright infringement.

I'll save genetic migration from corn to the weeds in the drainage ditch for another rant.

Populations are leveling off. Agri-corporations are over producing by about 30%. Starvation has more to do with distribution and profits, than it does with production.

Next come the privatization of the public sector. (Make you a deal on some clean air.)

So wave your flag. Trust the authorities know best. Being an Eloid isn't so bad, except you get eaten.

Screw 'em

- Bill Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Reply to
William Rose

Uhhh.... I assume this most excellent rebuttal and rant was directed at RT and *not* me.

Would like to add that the 30% overproduction will soon be taken care of as we implement the idiotic idea that we can burn off the last few inches of topsoil in our fuel tanks. Great idea... turn food and crop land into fuel so that we can maintain our level of consuming. Once again, who benefits?

I like your analogy of us being farmed for our incomes. It's better than the idea of being in a permanent debtor's prison without walls.

Fah.....I gotta go play in the dirt and calm myself.

Care Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Charlie, when your ready for some more shock therapy try

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1.html . All will be answered. $10,000,000,000/year in fuel subsidies will mostly go to Archer Daniel Midlands (what a surprise!). "The Congressional Budget Office estimates that reducing gasoline consumption 10 percent through ... fuel economy standards would cost ... about $3.6 billion a year. Achieving the same result by expanding ethanol production would cost taxpayers at least $10 billion a year...".

We got us a CEO president.

Who can we thank? ADM CEO Dwayne Andreas. "CEO Andreas gained legendary status as a double-dealer during the Watergate investigations, when the congressional hearings revealed that he had cut the $25,000 check used by Richard Nixon's "plumbers" to finance the famous hotel break-in."

If you like eating meat, you had better get ready to pony up.

"Mark Grasmick, a commodities trader at Valco Commodities in Rocky Ford, said corn prices are now above $4 per bushel.

"Last year, corn prices were at about $2.75 a bushel. Now, it's up mainly because of ethanol," Grasmick said.

According to federal Department of Agriculture reports, the amount of corn needed to make ethanol for transportation in the U.S. was projected to be 2.15 billion bushels in 2007. That figure is expected to rise to more than 3 billion bushels in 2008."

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Well, the rain has let up here. Back to some nice clean dirt.

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Reply to
William Rose

No shock, Bill. I read Krugman's articles on a semiregular basis, particulary when they show up in the news and blogs I read.

This I didn't knwo. Not surprising, for as one keeps turning over rocks, many of the same slimy creatures keep crawling out. Many of us don't seem to realize that the place we find ourselves was determined decades ago. As long as we can keep on with our Happy Motoring, all will be well. Bah...the Great American Dream.

True, and I find it interesting this regional tidbit I picked up last week. A friend of my bro-in-law operated a 160 head dairy in Neb. He recently accepted a 400,000 g'vt buyout of his herd.

I thought that the Dairy Buyout Program was over in the late Eighties, when it did mega damage to the beef producers, as a result of the glut of dairy beef being processed. I don't know if this is widespread again, I can't seem to find any info, or else don't know where or how to search it. Perhaps it has resurfaced in newer farm bills. If this is widespread, it could show effect on beef in the future.

I don't know if this figures into anything other than price supports or not. Just seems a damn waste when kids are hungry, particularly in this country, that production is cut.

Though who the hell wants to eat that shit called meat anymore... pork and poultry fed melamine contaminated pet food, beef being fed poultry litter and other remains, antibiotic loaded, cage raised, etc. THe only pork I prchase is Beeler's and try to buy only certifiable

*100%" organic dairy and other meat. Local if possible. It's dmaned expensive to try and not play with the big boys. ANd we use less meat than in the past.

Yet another reason for people to take their gardening seriously and perfect their practices.

Local farmers are as happy as pigs eatin' crap by moonlight, with prices like this, consequences be damned, or most likely unknown.

I read an article that stated that the amount of corn required to produce a tankful of ethanol for your typical SUV would feed a person for a year.

I think I shall go to the garden and sit and think. Or maybe just sit.

Either way, *I* will fuel up with some ethanol derived from barley!

Cheers Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

You must be drinkin' a micro-brew. Seems the big boys mostly use California long grain rice for making their suds, plus a little malt enzyme to trigger the conversion of starch to sugar. Shame that it takes $700 worth of water to produce $150 worth of rice. Water privatization is going to be the next step in the privatization of the public sector. When Bechtel took over Bolivia's water system they charged through the nose for the same quality of water and, made it illegal to collect rain water. You want to see a good riot? Watch the DVD "The Corporation". Those Bolivians did not see the humor of wealth being redistributed from the poor to the rich. I strongly recommend a book called "I was an Economic Hit Man". It's pretty short on specifics but really lays out how the "little Eichmans" of the World Bank and the IMF work.

I got in some good exercise this after noon by turning a couple of small garden plots with a fork. Hopefully, I'll get them partially planted tomorrow. Learned last year not to plant all the corn at the same time. Hopefully, I'll be a little better in catching them when they are ripe. Last year I waited for the tassels to change color. This year I think I'll just go for it when I see any tassels at all.

So, where are you at (geographically) Charlie and what is the anesthetic of choice there?

Prost, (Bitte, ein Bit, if I have one left;

Reply to
William Rose

Micro brew indeed! I mostly drink micro-brews, well, except for my overwhelming fondness for Guinness. Here's the link for this evening's brew.

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I've been drinking Boulevard regularly since they first made their brew available. Pretty limited area back then, but as you can see it has expanded greeatly.

The big boys produce horsepiss. They would sprain a taste bud on good brew. And you are right... we must make as responsible of choices as possible. The water usage required for rice and then to turn it into brew is not the most responsible choice one can make. Probably not beer in general either. Wine seems to bee a good choice, but some of us have a problem with self-control and find that anesthics other than beer makes us feel a bit *not to good* on account of our tendency to overindulge.

However, backing up just a bit, I must give some credit to Anheuser-Busch (selfishly speaking), even though it was for their own economic reasons: they helped keep Ventria out this state. Ventria and their damned Gm rice and biopharm processing and research facility, after they found themselves unwanted in CA, I think KS got stuck with the b*****ds.

AB backed the rice farmers in the bootheel area and threatened to purchase no rice grown anywhere close to where Ventria wanted to produce GM rice, though they later publicly claimed to have backed off somewhat on this threat. Still, Ventria didn't end up s*****ng in my backyard. Selfish? Sure it is. Unfortunately, Ventria ended up in someone else's backyard.

Damned funny ain't it that some say that GM crops are OK, but look what happens when the big boys find their product threatened by GM contaminated rice.

I will check out the DVD and Economic Hit Man has been on my list for a while. I've read a couple excerpts, enough to want more.

Bechtel...feh. Yet another rock overturned and look what crawls out and with whom it has been in bed. Bushes, Saudis, back many administrations.

Hopefully, yet without my holding much hope, people in the US will awaken and find things ain't really funny here either. Perhaps people should give a close look at what is happening in South America and quit paying attention to what they are told is happening there. Some relatively healthy sounding changes underway.

But why have both Bushes allegedly purchased mega acres in Paraguay?

Seems a little close, if rumors be true, to several folks that

*really* don't see much humor in the corporate/neocon/fascist way of doing business "down there".

Perhaps it is good soil and climate for gardening and retirement.

Ahh...lucky you. Wish we had the room for corn. Fortunately the local farmers market provides for this. Man, I am ready for corn and 'maters.

Our 4 year old grandson was here yesterday and we had some good fun and learning in the garden. This is the subject for some future post... children and gardening and all that good stuff.

Northern Missouri, far northern Missouri. And you?

My anesthetic of choice is barleywine: Dark barleywine... stouts, porters, heavy ales.

But , my favoritest of all, though no microbrew, is Guinness. But then, Guinness is not beer... it is some kind of mystical, magical elixir of the gods!

Reply to
Charlie

Looks like the real deal. Ah Guinness, that reminds me.

It was after a brewmasters siminar in Dusseldorf and some of the brewmasters went down for a drink. First in was the brewmaster from Budweiser who asked for a Bud on draft. Next in was the brewmaster from Labatt's who asked for a Labatt on draft. Then the brewmaster from Lowenbrau ordered a Lowenbrau on draft. Finally, the brewmaster from Guinness came in, took one look around and said to the barman, "Give me a Coke". Stunned, the other brewmasters said,"Paddy, why are you drinking a Coke"?

Looking grimly at them, Paddy said."If you fookin' pansies ain't gonna drink beer, neither an I."

-------

A German friend had what I thought was the perfect description of an English ale pub's brew. The bartender ask what he thought of it, to which my friend replied,"I think your horse is sick."

-------- I couldn't find a Bitburger, which I really prefer with food but I did find an Anderson Valley Oatmeal Stout, perfect for sipping.

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But I digress.

I'm here in Northern California, 'bout 70 mile north of San Francisco, living in a wide spot in the road called Forestville, near Santa Rosa. I started reading your posting and realized I know more about what's going on in Japan than I do the Midwest. If you don't mind, e-mail me at the above address, I've never even heard of Ventria.

The morning fish-wrap mentioned a website,

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which I'n sure the readers of this group will find edifying and which will be of special interest to those who think home gardening is too expensive for what we get. If nothing else it can help us make more responsible purchases.

Last year was my first successful attempt at growing corn, we had a hot summer. I'm hoping to duplicate my results with an earlier start and improved soil. It's hard justifying the room and water that it takes so I just have it in a couple of small plots that I shoe-horned in. I mix the patch with melons and pole beans. Melons and corn, that's conspicuous consumption.

I planted a wisteria over the gate into the yard, three years ago. This year it bloomed forth in all its' splendor and, it is beautiful to behold but, it is shading a small patch that I'm trying to get into production. So here I am, dangling on my own petard.

Even using "Sluggo", I'm still having some predatation (it's a lot less though) in the garden at night. Man, wandering around in the dead of night, on terraces, with a flashlight doesn't make me a happy camper. I think I'll try the slightly elevated board routine and see what's underneath of it in the morning.

Keep pissin' and moanin', if the wheel don't squeak, it'll never get fixed.

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Reply to
William Rose

Jeez Charlie, the local fish wrap

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didn't have anything about anything in the "flyover". This is just so totally screwed. A mile wide twister and nine dead and, we have drivel about an anachronistic Queen and the sale of a replica of the Dukes of Hazards car in our A section.

About nine companies own all the major newspapers in America. If you expect anything more than the funnies you had better find a source of information. I suggest any of the Pacifica stations e.g.

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or watch Democracy Now
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.

What else aren't they telling us?

Aren't we all Americans? I guess not. What a huge steaming pile of B.S. this country has become.

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly, but not this time)

Reply to
William Rose

We are collectively Mushroom People, you know... kept in the dark and fed crap.

Increasing readership, I see ;-) Can't tell if anyone else is listening or not here. I hope so. All this is relevant, with just a bit of thought.

We once were all mostly united... I seem to remember. Keep us divided and fed disinfomation and lots of Anna Nicole (or whatever other flavor is popular that day) and kept poor, yet wanting more and more, and it is easy to control public awareness and action. People I know and work with, and some family start looking for other things to do when I start on one of my daily rants. Though I must say, my sons are showing that they really have been paying attention all these years. They have even started going thru all my back issues of Mother Earth News and are trying some of the stuff they find.

And the elder son is working on plans for a large garden including a huge asparagus bed. Hope he gets to going.... he has nearly an acre in the back of his yard!

We're taking a huge hit with rain here. Four inches in the last 12 hours with lots more on the way. Chance of storms and severe storms all week they say. Flooding is fast becoming an issue, with many roads closed in the four corners region...ks,ia,nb and mo. We have managed to avoid any hail related with these storms. Lemme tell ya', as anyone from hail country can, hail will play hell with plants. Is that ever an issue in your part of the world? I would guess not often.

Tell me climate change is not a very real issue. It is certainly affecting gardening and garden plans in recent years and even more severely this year. It should be interesting what summer brings.

Won't be much gardiening done here for quite some time. I'm having to move a bunch of seedlings and pots under cover to keep the poor dears from drownding. Fortunately what is in the ground is mostly in raised beds and drains well.

Crap, I gotta shut this machine down....another one is starting and the the lightning is getting severe.

Stay dry Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Speaking of mushrooms, does anyone know a good source to get started growing them? I love them, as does my mother, and having to buy them in the store all the time because they go bad too fast is annoying.

Reply to
Lilah Morgan

Here are a couple of places. Search mushroom and culture and you'll get oodles of info. MushroomPeople has been around a long time.

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Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Checking them out now, thank you mulchly(I figured since there was a gardening ng, mulchly would be better then muchly) :-)

Reply to
Lilah Morgan

Nice one... You made me chuckle. Hope they get you started.

Care Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Right as usual. Spent part of the afternoon turning and, blending in some aged manure, in another part of the garden where I am planting Degli Ortolani and, lemon cukes. Spading by hand. If it don't kill me, it will make me stronger. Soil is looking pretty good except for the spare rocks. I also got nine Dent corn, six asparagus pole beans, a Sugar Baby (early ripening) watermelon and a Minnesota Midget Muskmelon planted today, all germinated from seed. They join about twenty lettuce plants, twelve bush beans, two dozen snow peas and, two German Striped tomatoes. Another corn patch awaits me tomorrow where earlier ripening varieties of corn will be planted with another Sugar Baby watermelon. This is about a third of the garden. I still have a trellises to move out of a shady part of the property and into the sun for a climbing zuke (zuchetta sp?) and some birdhouse gourds. Repairing the drip irrigation as I go.

The sun is out here. It is 4:30 PM, 89 F and the butterflies are skipping around and, the birds are singing. Again I've see one bee today. I'd call him/her a bumble bee because it was so puffy and fuzzy with the classical yellow and black stripes. I'm a very lucky person, when you consider all the misery out there in the Mid-West and the Mid-East. Hopefully, they'll get their share soon.

How am I doing Sue?

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Reply to
William Rose

See, see.... now you done got us in trouble, talkin' in class. ;-)

Chastised Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

My bad:>O

- Bill

Reply to
William Rose

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