Oak seedlings

[karamonde]

Hello everyone!

First of all let me say that the anti-bot filter made it hard for ME! Especially the "type the 6 digits or letters you see in the box" - I couldn't see most of them!

Anyway, the question I have is this: I picked up ~15 acorns last October from 2 oaks near my house and planted them in a flowerpot, somewhere mid December I decided to dig around them and check for roots - by gently testing whether the acorns were loose or not. Turns out that 7 of them had rooted, of those 3 made it to oak seedlings which are now ~20cm tall each and starting to leaf. The plants were outside throughout the winter and until now with the exception of 10 days that I was away and brought them in the house to avoid drying out (it was quite hot), now since I put them back outside their leaves drooped. Originally I thought that their leaves may be too heavy for them and that nature will take its course, however last night I put them back in the house to shield from very high winds and rain and in 24 hours their leaves have perked up almost perpendicular to the stem.

Is this normal? Could it be caused by the cold that we are having this week? Am I confusing them by alternating temperature between indoors and outdoors?

I am attaching a photograph from last Saturday to illustrate what I mean, the plant at the back has been the faster grower, I think I got two species here, Q. robur (the red/brown coloured leaves) and Q. petraea.

A friend who also grew oaks years ago said "You're worrying too much, just leave them outside - they look fine".

Comments?

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[David E. Ross]

See my .

[Farm1]

David you say that your oak is 28 years old and in 'recent' years it's dropped acorns. How 'recent' is 'recent'? We have oaks of at least 4 different types that would be less than 10 years old dropping acorns. Is that type of oak slow to form and drop acorns or does that just apply to oaks in your area?

[Dan Espen]

Hmm, we used to have a maple right outside our front window. In the fall we'd see squirrels in the tree hanging upside down like Xmas ornaments eating the maple seeds.

[karamonde]

Well given that I am extremely fond of this particular tree I did decide to plant some and see what happens. Turns out that watching things grow is far far more enjoyable than I ever imagined.

I have also planted some english yew seeds: picked the berries, cleaned them, stored them in the fridge for 2 months and then planted. Nothing has happened yet though, I hear that yews are a bit moody and take their time, they might sprout or they might not. Next year I think I'll just collect more!

Thanks for the replies!

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[John McGaw]

My herd of squirrels must be inefficient. Or maybe they prefer the acorns and hickory nuts but in my yard maple seedlings come up so thickly that attacking large swaths of property with a Stihl FS85 weed whacker is the only solution. Same thing with ash and beech and holly seedlings. I love having wooded property but the woods seem entirely too eager to eat the house if I let my guard down.

[Brooklyn1]

Unless it's a special variety that you can't find at a plant nursery or you are growing a farm that you're leaving to your heirs planting hardwood trees from seed is very silly, especially oak trees... seedlings (1st 5 years) grow relatively fast, saplings (2nd 5 years) slow down a lot, after that oak tree growth slows to a crawl... unless you are rather young (teenager) you'll likely be very old or dead before you will sit in its shade. I strongly suggest planting the largest sapling you can afford... the typical 10 year old oak tree sapling will be about 8'tall and 1 1/2" caliper... and you'll still need to wait like thirty more years before you can sit in its shade. Planting an acorn you lose ten years of growth and really gain nothing... nurserys sell oak tree saplings for very cheap... and odds are strong that the first winter critters will dig up and eat your acorns, all of them.

[David E. Ross]

It was 28 years old in 2004, the last time the page was updated. It is now approaching 36 years.

It dropped acorns before 2004.

That is, by 2004 I had already picked up acorns, sprouted them, and nursed them to saplings in 5 gallon cans. Given how long that takes and the fact that I did not initially do anything with the acorns it dropped, the tree may have started dropping acorns at 20 years.

My oak is a valley white oak (Quercus lobata). These are slow to mature and then live 200 or more years. Some may even live 500 years. It is not unusual for a mature, old valley white oak to have a trunk that is 2 yards (72 inches, 1.8 m) in diameter at chest height. Mine is "only" 21 inches (0.54 m) in diameter. While it is mature, it is still quite young.

My ash tree (Fraxinus uhdei) was a sapling when I planted it about 38 years ago. For an ash tree, it is not only mature but also quite old.

[David E. Ross]

The most common weed in my garden is ash seedlings. The tree is in my back yard; but I have seedlings in the front yard, too. I sweep bucketsful of seeds from my patio every summer.

[Farm1]

Oaks are tough. We leave

Of course I do. If I'm lucky enough to beat the parrots to them. They eat most of the acorns and also decimate the pine cones and the smaller nut like growths on the upright piney Italian looking ugly things.

Every Spring I spend many hours pulling out

You haven't got a oak infestation, you have a parrot deficit.

My hosta beds look like some sort of

Sounds like you have an insufficient squirrels population too.

I'd guess that half of the

That might work where you live, but you would be the exception rather than the rule. We have to make sure we water them (it's way too dry for young oaks to survive without that), put tree guards aorund them when they are small (or the hares eat them), and make sure they are well protected by stock proof fences (or the kangaroos decimate them or the cows eat them).

That is just too restrictive a description.

Oaks make superb trees in farmland even in dry and hot locations if and only if, they can get their roots down. Making sure they can do that takes and effort, but it's worth it.

I could rave on about the oaks trees on farmland round Tumut in NSW where the temps regularly get over 40degrees C for long runs of time in summer. I've been gobbsmacked each time I visit that area at the foresight of the farmers who planted so many of these trees and obviously had to protect them from stock and tough conditions for enough time for them to prosper. It was seeing these stunning big Oaks in an area where they supposeldy wouldn't thrive, but where they gave such beauty and stock shelter from searing sun that inspired us to grow and plant them here. Our conditions are less harsh than the heat and dry of Tumut.

[Farm1]

I can sit in the shade of at least 2 of our oaks that are about 10 years old. We couldn't get a big party sheltered but certainly we two can sit in their shade.

I strongly suggest planting the

That advice is quite the reverse to my experience and that of most gardeners I know. Planting tube stock is far better in terms of producing quick and healthy growth.

In fact just recently in this ng there was advice given to someone about planting a hedge. Those who I'd rate as better gardeners all told the person to plant small plants rather than plants in '5 gallon' containers.

the typical 10 year old oak tree

Mine would be much bigger than that - more like 15 ft or even more.

and you'll still

Sheldon that is just not so.

[Farm1]

Wow. That is slow! Or perhaps mine are just precocious trees - but the two I am thinking of that are dropping acorns are both differerent types of oaks so I dont' know how that would apply to both types - must og out and check the other two types.

Ahh - will readup on it.

These are slow to mature

To mature = to grow?

[David E. Ross]

To start declining.

[Ecnerwal]

John my also not be paying attention to the difference between being in a forest or forest-edge-like environment (where trees will sprout and grow on their own easily) and being in a non-forested environment. Trees, and lack of trees, affect the environment they are in, (and the microclimate near them.) If you get a big enough block of oaks (or mixed woods) going, (ie, go beyond windbreaks to a woodlot) they might well reach a point of self-seeding successfully; or really fat parrots.

I don't know how it's going, but there was some notable success decades ago with planting trees (probably not oaks) on the edge of the sahara desert as a means of reversing its spread, and altering the microclimate to a more hospitable one for growing other things, not having the soil blow away, etc. "great green wall" appears to be a continuation/expansion of that idea. The initial trees are, naturally, going to need some support/care.

[Billy]

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." - Greek

[Farm1]

OK. I thought by slow to mature you must mean slow to start growing and thus producing acorns.

I was sure I'd read somewhere that in the UK oaks are 300 years in the growing, 300 years in the living and then 300 years in the declining. I'd be happy if we got 50 years growing, 50 years living and 50 years declining. That'd see me out by a long number of years.

[Farm1]

That is a very good point. It's one the Permaculturists keep making and one of whihc I keep losing sight utnil I'm reminded of it (again and again and again)

:-)) I say, 'a pox on the parrots' (fat or thin). We have too many of too many varieties of parrots. If they didn't eat my fruit or seeds such as acorns or other stuff I'd like to let to get to maturity, I might enjoy their presence and antics.

Interesting. I know here that tree planting amongst farmers/graziers has now become very popular because it's such and aid in local climate mitigation (by which I meant that it's cooler, warmer, more civilised to live amongst tree sheltered land).

[Farm1]

Actually I've seen that as being a Japanese poem (don't expect me to get the lines right): "A man truly understands the meaning of life when he plants a shade tree under which he knows he will not sit."

aother I like is: "The morning glory twines around the well bucket and so I lack water".

[karamonde]

I like these two and they reflect where I stand.

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[Billy]

Not much of a top down business model is it? ;O))