is it possible to grow fruit trees organically

[mcharon]

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco (zone 9b i think). we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without using chemicals? if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon pots. will the pots be big enough?

thank you in advance.

[Snooze]

Can't be done, until the advent of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, it was not possible to produce harvestable yields of fruits and vegetables....

The sarcasm should be noted. Obviously with out synthetic pesticides, you'll have to accept a higher level of insect damage as being a fair trade. Plenty of natural insect repellents and pesticides exist, such as caffeine, nicotine, beneficial insects, etc. Google is your best friend.

is a plethora of sound information online.

-S

[Frank]

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like apples on individual trees. Orchards will blast several acres with pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are lurking in surrounding vegetation. OTOH, I had no problem with peaches and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries advice.

Years ago, I used to bicycle past an apple orchard and watched them spraying. If you lived within a mile of them, you would not have to spray, if you get my drift. I think a lot of organic produce is protected by being within a pest free zone created by farmers using pesticides.

Frank

[Jangchub]

Of course it's possible.The problem is, or the challenge is you have to select varieties which are proven performers in your area. Depending on what you grow, chill hours becomes very important. I have a peach tree called 'Dixieland' which has a very low chill hour of 400. That means it must be below 45 degrees for at least 400 hours in order for the tree to set fruit.

This is not the case for all fruits, but I gave an example of why variety selection is the most important thing. There are many ways to raise organic fruits. Do a search for a catalog called Garden's Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the organic remedy.

[Stephen Henning]

Modern fruit varieties are bred to produce high quality commercial fruit but are highly dependent on pesticides. Many years ago before Monsanto and DuPont, people raised nice fruit by selecting varieties that were disease and pest resistant. Today, these varieties (which are inferior to todays varieties in most other ways) are called heirloom varieties and are sought after by the organic gardening crowd. You have to cut out the worms and ignore the sting marks and never expect to be able to sell them, but they are quite edible. Here are some links:

Asian pears:

Apricots:

Grapes:

[simy1]

It is very much dependent on climate. In the West there are plenty of abandoned orchards that continue to produce quality apple. In the midwest, it is as you say. The semiarid climate virtually eliminates all major apple pests. Even in Michigan, there are a number of fruits that one can grow without pesticides, amongst them hardy kiwis, chestnuts, persimmons, grapes and all berries.

To the OP: persimmon is very pest resistant, and probably grapes will present no problems. Apricots are probable, though I think they may need some chill, but I don't know about avocado or asian pear. If you go for it, try to buy fruit trees that will crop through the season, starting with mulberries and cherries in June and ending with citrus in winter.

[beeky]

I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with minimal success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred and mishapen. This year I tried 'Surround at Home' a sprayable form of kaolin, a type of clay. This stuff just coats leaves and fruit with a white, powdery substance and does reduce many insects. However, it does not appear to have any effect on birds and squirrels who are busy eating ripening plums and peaches.

I am gradually moving to fruits that seem to have low pest/disease problems. I have had excellent crops of blackberries and paw paws with no treatment of any kind. Birds and squirrels are still a problem but they do not seem to be as attracted to these fruits as they are to 'conventional' fruits.

--beeky

[e-mail] wrote:

[zxcvbob]

It's no longer possible to grow perfect, insect-free apples without using pesticides. But you can probably get close if your orchard hygiene is impeccable and if you use traps for coddling moths and apple maggots. A few bug stings or apple maggot tracks really don't hurt anything in fresh apples that you plan to eat right away, but they ruin the apples for storage.

Asian pears are pretty close to apples, but I don't recall my crazy great-aunt having problems with insect damage to her Asian pears, and she didn't spray anything.

You'll probably need to spray the grapes with something like Bordeaux mixture for fungus. I think Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and slaked lime) is allowed for organically grown fruits.

Best regards, Bob

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Some grapes suffer from little or no pest or disease damage, but they may not be the ones you like to eat. For instance, seedless green grapes tend to be hopelessly dependent on chemicals. Contact your local cooperative extension, and be persistent until you find someone to speak with who REALLY knows the best varieties to grow in your area. The moment someone pauses and seems to be guessing, ask to speak to someone else.

[sherwindu]

Hi,

It may be possible with pears, as they do not have as many pest problems as apples and to some extent stone fruits. Much of this depends on your location and what pests abound there. You might make some explorative trips to nearby fruit farms and find out what problem, if any, they are having. There are some good organic sprays like dormant oil, but if you get a bad infestation of insects or fungus, you may have to call out the 'big guns' to fix the problem. There is much on the web about organic sprays, but I don't think these sprays represent a complete solution.

Sherw> hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco

[sherwindu]

Well, that is not my experience here in the Midwest. If you spray on a regular schedule (and I don't mean overspraying), you can control pests and fungicides in a backyard orchard.

Yes, but the ones that are interested in your fruit are lurking around your trees. If you spray with a sticker material, that spray will eventually knock out or greatly reduce any potential attacks.

Peaches are less prone to insect attack, but not immune. The tree is also subject to fungus attacks.

[sherwindu]

There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the best tasting choice.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.

[sherwindu]

Not true. People looked for the best tasting and sometimes the best keepers. The newer trend is to develop fruit that it is genetically resistant, like the William's Pride Apple. If you find a heirloom apple that is disease resistant, that is unusual and just an added bonus.

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant fruit. The real fruit enthusists have always grown heirlooms for their taste and special characteristics like good for pies, cider, etc.

You can keep the worms out with organic sprays of dormant oil, sticky traps, and the latest technique of bagging the fruit. I grow lots of heirlooms this way and they are nice and clean. I will resort to chemical sprays between the dormant oil and the bagging, but that is just a precautinary move, plus I want all my fruit to be clean.

Sherwin D.

[sherwindu]

Surround is a messy and somewhat ineffective. Try my technique of bagging fruits with sandwich zip locks, being sure to cut a slit at the bottom for rain water to drain out.

Paw Paws are quite unique in the plant world in that they have almost no pest problems. In fact, they only insects that go near them are flies to do the pollination.

Sherwin D.

[sherwindu]

Never was.

Depending on the degree of infestation, traps are expensive and in my experience do not do a complete job.

I'm not sure what kind of apple maggots you have, but when I pick an apple with a maggot in it, it is obvious from the destruction inside that this apple is a 'tosser'.

[dr-solo]

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[Jangchub]

Patently incorrect. I grow peaches organically and they are the most mouth watering, perfect fruits around. The trouble with annual production is that in Texas we may not get enough chill hours for fruit. So, it's not a great idea to make a statement that no such animal as an organic fruit. It's inaccurate.

I didn't say to buy any of them, but that there are great photos in their catalog of diseased and pests associated with fruits. I also don't know where you get the idea going organic is more expensive. It's useless to debate, your mind is made up.

[Stephen Henning]

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired plants.

So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally generated. Take your pick.

[simy1]

However, on the West Coast plums often make it without any pesticides. Really, dry air cuts disease down dramatically.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Not all disease resistant plants are this way. The technology you mentioned is relatively new. There *are* plants which were simply selected because of resistance, less or a proactive process than the one you're describing.