A while back I mentioned a problem we are having with the local DOT
wanting to take out our water source thru our pasture. (don't remember
what thread it was on.) Got some good advice from some, but was
wondering what to do now.
For those who didn't catch it before:
We have a 20+ acre pasture outside of city/town limits. Currently we
have 9 horses and 5 cows placed there. There is a ditch, which is
actually a run-off of the South River, that runs thru the middle of the
pasture. The water source is critical, as you know for the animals
well-fare. Suddenly, (after cattle have been on that pasture for years)
DOT wants to go in and re-dig the ditch, and fill it with rocks (the big
landscaping kind). They are planning on taking out at least 5 acres of
our pasture, plus the water source. Filling it with rock will keep the
water from flowing deep enough for the cattle to cool down (cows don't
sweat, so in this heat we are having, they need at least 2-3ft of water
to stand in to cool themselves.) Finding another pasture is not an
option, can't afford to buy or rent another place. We are not getting
any help from the town or county officials. The neighbors near the
pasture don't want the work done either.
Someone on here (joe, was it? not sure..) mentioned that i should ask to
see their environmental impact report. I did, and they claim that I
don't have the right to see it. Say it's not necessary for me to see it.
They claim that the horses, *not* the cows who stand in the ditch most
of the time, are polluting the water. I don't see how, since no one has
had problems with their water locally. There have been cattle and horses
in that pasture for years, way before we ever got it to put ours on.
They plan to start their work mid-August. Is there anything else we can
do to fight this?
1) Where is "here"?
2) Your stream is a "run off"? You mean, it runs INTO the river? Yes, or no?
3) What water does the town claim is being polluted? The river? Drinking
water? Does the town get its drinking water from the river?
4) If the town does NOT get its water supply from the river, where DOES the
supply come from?
sampson county, roseboro town planning/ag zone, nc
no, doesn't run into, it branches off the river, excess from the river
runs into the ditch, it runs thru the pasture, and dead-ends on the
other end of the pasture, about 4 acres outside of the pasture.
I have no clue, can't them to elaborate as to what is *polluted*. Have
requested to see the report myself, but to no avail...
Town water comes from some tributaries of the cape fear river. The cape
fear and south rivers eventually meet, but that is counties away. So i
don't think that our water would have much to do with it. I don't know,
maybe I am thinking too small frame...
OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see the
environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds unsure of
themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having problems, tell
them your next phone call will be to the news departments of local TV
Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking water,
then something stinks really bad here.
calling local news is an option i have been considering.
There are a few area houses, but they are all on town water now.
forgot to mention, don't know if it makes a difference or not, there is
a right-a-way in place, due to electric company lines skirting the
pasture on one side.
the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that
my uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
Which one isn't? Will have to check it out. There are a few different
contractors working in the general area. They are trying to *build up*
the town. On the next ballot is to allow liquor by the drink to attract
more restaurants, and on the agenda at the town meetings for the last
few and the next few up-coming months, is how to get the down-town
churches to *move* from down-town. Even one church that has been there
since before the town was a *town*. They think that if the churches move
out, then businesses will be more attracted to the area, and more
revenue will come in from the downtown. They want to make roseboro
compete with likes of wilmington, raleigh, and fayetteville.
You would be wise to find yourself a good lawyer who's not in bed with any
of your locals, even if it means he/she is very far away.
And, are you afraid to pick up the phone and call your state legislators,
attorney general's office, etc? Your original message was posed at 8:37 this
morning, and you haven't mentioned talking to anyone with any power. How
about the environmental agency? What did they say about "you don't have the
right to see the environmental impact statement"?
Oh..you haven't called them yet? Why not?
for one, i wanted to be armed with the right info, before i called,
make sure i could know a little more before i call, so i can at least
sound like i know what all our rights are when i talk to the higher
powers that be. for two, had to take kids to clinic today. checkups
and shots. for three, baby didn't take well with shots, no one will
hear me too well on the phone right now. for four...it takes and hour
(if good traffic) to get to the clinic and then wait about 2 hours,
and an hour back. throw in a trip to grocery store for milk and
diapers...posted first 2 messages before i left for appt. posted next
messages when i got back and had a chance.
don't worry, i will be calling tomorrow, and will post back on what i
have been told.
have also emailed a circuit court judge who is a good friend of mine,
and am waiting to hear his reply on who i should talk to. asked you
guys, cause i think there are some very knowledgeable folk about here,
and you might know some things that i should ask or request on the
government level. so far that has proven true. I would never have
known to ask about an environmental impact report otherwise. Also,
wasn't sure exactly what offices to talk to, etc. I'm more into to
medical than politics. You have given me good info, and i will put it
to use tomorrow.
I gather from your writing that you don't actually own this 20 acre
pasture, but by some agreement you have access. And even if you do
own it if that land is designated as "Wetlands" (which is likely)
there is nothing you can do... I'm surprised the state is permitting
anyone to keep livestock there, perhaps they haven't inspected
recently and/or the local inspector turns a blind eye. If that
acreage is indeed wetlands I were you I'd not make a ruckus, I'd
quietly (and quickly) find somewhere else to keep my animals lest you
get hit with some stiff penalties and the clean up costs, which can be
staggering. And if you're using someone's land by verbal agreement
you can bet the owner will never admit to even knowing you. Among
other issues (erosion, etc.) wetlands are designated as such because
of how they affect other bodies of water and especially water tables,
most especially with coliform from livestock.
To start with, we had a legal contract to the land. Laywers took care of
this. It was a rental contract to begin with. The owner decided after 5
years of constant payment, we did not have to pay anymore to continue
using it. Had another document drawn-up, stating that we had paid in
full, and the land was legally ours, with the exception that he & his
wife have lifetime rights. We will own the area his house is own then,
also. For now, we help him keep his yard and garden up. We hold the deed
to the whole area of 32 acres.
No, it is not wetland area. Not according to the county maps and land
office anyway. I have had that checked.
Cattle have been on that exact spot for generations. It has been a
pasture for at least 80 years. The man we got it from, his family had
that place before him. He is 84 and says that when he was a child, his
grand-father and father had cattle there.
That doesn't sound kosher to me, no one "takes care of" title
transfer. You had no closing and paid no consideration, did no title
search to discover if the land is even clear of encumberences and who
the legal owner is. You cannot so simply acquire land ownership by
say so... even a tax search would need to be conducted, someone is
always liable for taxes, always the owner of record.
You had it checked or checked it yourself, which?
Who cares, that's a bunch of red herring if I ever smelled one.
You said you "have" a 20 acre pasture instead of saying you *own* a 20
acre pasture. If you actually owned that land you would have said
*owned*, and then no way would any agency come on your land and do the
kind of work you describe, not unless there exists a wetlands easement
for remedial work, or some kind of easement. If there actually was a
recent deed transfer you'd absolutely know of any incumberances,
especially easements and ROWs, they'd be accurately indicated right on
the deed, even if there were no recent survey.
Your way of expressing yourself does not make you believeable. I've
bought and sold too may pieces of real estate in my life to not
recognize BS. No one turns over 20 acres, and then another 10 acres
and with their home, just because as you claim you've been paying rent
to keep a few head of livestock in a pasture for five years (no one
keeps livestock with no shelter). I don't care about what others wish
to believe but I for one do not believe your story, not a word.
you may choose to 'take care of' such things yourself, but we don't. the
man we got it from wanted it this way, we were getting a deal, we went
do you ever believe anything anyway? i said *have*, not owned, because
that's the way i talk, i type like i talk. I have kids, i don't own
them. I have a van, my hubby and i have a home, we have another van
together, and he *has* 2 trucks. should i name the tractors and
equipment we *have* also? if i was talking to you face to face, i would
have said it the same way that i typed it, if you would even let me get
a word in edgewise. the horses and cows have a shelter (more than one)
too by the way, didn't think that was an important fact to state in my
question. also, if you read the thread, then you will notice that i
stated there is a ROW in place, for the electric company to care for
lines. i don't know about where you are, but here when the state wants
to do some form of work to a ditch, they do it. sometimes we get
notices, sometimes we don't...depends on what type work, and if it's
oh, and you don't know what the price of the rent each quarter was. it
justifies our *ownership*. besides, the man is a millionaire, a founding
father of our area and county. his kids didn't want the place, they have
lives elsewhere, and he is *nice*. something you obviously know nothing
yep,yep! do unto others as you would have them do unto you, honesty is
the best policy, honor & respect elders, no lying, no cheating, no envy,
no lashing out in anger, no stealing, no adultery, no idolatry....the
"complete golden way"!
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:36:07 -0400, rachael simpson
Now, now.... there was no need to expand upon the Ethic of Reciprocity.
I was neither questioning, nor testing your beliefs. I was observing
and giving credit to you for your forgiving spirit.
One must keep it simple to appreciate it's true essence. This
principle is not the sole province of the teachings of Jesus or the
Hebrews. Or the Jainists or the Buddhists or the Hindus or any
others.....it is a Universal Principle.
It is complete in and of itself.
Care and G'luck
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