Chemical herbicides - cheaper options?

[kellyj00]

Roundup is darned expensive! I want to kill off a bunch of bermuda grass to make room for a garden this year, and I understand this is the only way to kill the stuff.

Is there something else that will kill the grass cheaper, but not pollute the soil so I can grow vegetables a few weeks (or months perhaps) later?

by the way, I'm planning to spray the grass to kill it...then cover it with black plastic. Wait a few weeks for it to get warm enough not to kill my tomatos then plant them (transplants from local nursery stock of 5" or so plants) by cutting X's in the plastic about 6" and planting the tomatos, then mulching right next to the plant.

Do I pose any problems to my plants by doing the above method? Does the black plastic pose any risk of getting too hot for my plants?

Thanks!

[zxcvbob]

A $40 bottle of Roundup will last for years (decades.) It's not that expensive unless you are *way* overusing it. I just started on my second quart 2 years ago. I bought the first quart in the 1980's.

Don't cover the grass until it is dead -- or at least sick and yellow from the Roundup.

If the ground is too cold for the tomatoes, the grass is probably not actively growing yet and the Roundup will be less affective.

Can you get straw or pine needles to cover the whole garden? Then till under the old mulch after the earthworms, fungi, and bacteria have had a season to work on it. Leaves, straw, and horse manure would be perfect. If you use plastic now, it will get in the way when you try to till it.

I've seen good reports about using red plastic mulch under tomatoes.

Bob

[Jangchub]

Any brand which has an active ingredient; glyphosphate, can be used. There is a brand at Walmart (if you'll shop there) which is a concentrate and half the price of the brand name.

You can also use use the clear plastic (black plastic is not as effective) and dig it out. How large is this area?

[Lar]

Now I am confused...this from the same fingers that used to berate anything to do with man made chemicals in gardening? What's next?, cats playing with dogs?.. The extreme far right campaigning for Hillary?

Lar

[Lar]

if you only cut an X in the plastic for the plants, not much water is going to get to the root zone

Lar

[JoeSpareBedroom]

SLAP! Stop with the logical ideas right this minute, or go to your room.

:)

[Ben Phlat]

Depends on the size of your property, I just sprayed over 20 gallons, mixed from concentrate, just to go around the house, around the driveway and down the the front and back property line. I live on ten acres though.

--Ben

[Cearbhaill]

Well now- that would depend 100% on the size of the property, wouldn't it? You simply cannot generalize like that.

[Ann]

Lar expounded:

Facts are facts. If someone asks about a chemical they'll get an answer. You'll notice she suggested clear plastic (which you snipped so you could snip at her). That's the route I'd go, too.

[Jangchub]

I'm providing accurate information, not condoning or encouraging anything. They guy will use it anyway, so since he will use it, why not give information?

I haven't been staunch for years, Lar. I've grown. When facing death, nothing is important enough to be fundamentalist about.

[Lar]

The reason part was snipped is because it had nothing to do with my post, I should of stuck a OT in there. Snip at her?, if so it was with good behavior in mind, insert :) :) :) where needed. Next thing we know Wylie from Australia will be back typing again promoting his new way of life doing volunteer work at a monastery.

As far as the plastic. Clear, though warmer will still promote growth of the grass runners in the Spring with the sunlight getting in. Black plastic still gets hot enough to do the job along with not allowing sunlight to promote the plant growth.

Lar

[kellyj00]

Ok, so if cutting an X isn't going to get enough water to my plants then what else can I do?

So, which is better Black or Clear plastic? Is either one more likely to burn my plants as well as the weeds?

Do I need to set up a special hose system to water just the roots of my tomatos? I think I've seen some 1/4" and 3/8" black plastic lines at walmart that folks use to water houseplants, has anyone used these for vegetable gardens? Would it have enough flow? It seems like a pretty neat option, as I could just mount a little mister head to the bottom rung on each of my round tomato cages.

Sorry so many questions, but I'm really clueless about how to grow vegetables on soil that is covered with bermuda grass right now.

[Jangchub]

Use the hose and stick it into the hole.

Clear plastic in many test trials proved more effective in solarization, including the riddance of weeds. You can use black, but I use clear. I would recommend you get on your knees and really dig large holes, loosening the soil about 36" for each tomato plant. Amend that soil using compost and good organic fertilizer. When you are there, carefully pull every single piece of the bermuda out by hand. Three holes that large will take several hours or so. Then lay the plastic over everything and cut away the part where the plants are going to grow. Put in your stakes or cages or whatever you will hold the plants up with and it should be perfectly fine. The catalog Gardens Alive, (I beleive) sells red colored plastic which is supposed to help tomatoes. I never tried it, so have no experience.

Sure, you can do any number of ways to water. Drip hoses, soaker lines, etc. Choose what is right for you.

No worries. There are a lot of people in this newsgroup who've been here for a dozen years, myself included. We all have to start somewhere. If you have more questions, just ask away. You may get several ansers and you can choose the one which makes the most sense to you. I prefer organic gardening, others prefer conventional gardening.

There are a million websites to also help you with suggestions.

Victoria

[Lar]

Plastic as a mulch in general is not always a good option, not only keeps rain out but will not let the ground breath either. It can also can create an environment for the more harmful fungi/molds to exist. Maybe a quality landscape fabric instead, allows water in, keeps weeds out, though there is more of a cost than the plastic.

Some sort of "drip" irrigation for the plants probably will work great. Probably not even a mister would be needed, just create a watering zone around the base of the plants.

Lar

[Jangchub]

Fungi and molds will be killed or prevented with clear plastic. Black plastic sets up the perfect conditions for anaerobic soil to fester problems.