Interesting. Code here in 2003 was only one grounding rod, (Actually two, 6' apart), at the service entrance only. All other sub panels needed 4 wires back to main panel.
Wonder if it is worth changing?
I'm not the expert but I'm thinking that because the subpanel is located in a detached building that it also must have a ground rod AND
4 wires back. If anyone is sure about otherwise I'm glad to hear it cause it's save me a couple bucks on the ground rod :-)Your electrical inspector would know.
Sounds like a deal. 'cept i'd run a 20 to those upstairs outlets. I don't use any 14 ga wire at all any more except for some limited lighting circuits. How many outlets upstairs and what's going to be plugged into them?
Better study it again.
What if he does not have an inspector involved? Then that's not an option to ask.
s
I'm not the expert but I'm thinking that because the subpanel is located in a detached building that it also must have a ground rod AND
4 wires back. If anyone is sure about otherwise I'm glad to hear it cause it's save me a couple bucks on the ground rod :-) *You are correct. The ground rod is for lightning protection. Check with your building inspector to see if he wants two.
That is correct for your situation. This configuration is always required by the 2008 NEC, and it is required by earlier NECs if there is any other metallic path between the detached building and the building with the service.
Note that you need to have a grounding electrode system at the detached building, and ground rods are just one option. All electrodes present must be attached together, and the possibilities include: ground rods you choose to drive; metallic water service pipe that is buried for at least 10' before entering the building; and the rebar in your foundation, if it is #4 or larger.
The rebar is required to be used if you are pouring a new foundation (not for an existing building), and if you attach to it, there is no need to drive any ground rods. The metallic water pipe is required to be supplemented by at least one other electrode, e.g. a ground rod or the rebar. Lastly, if you are using only ground rods, because no other electrodes are present, you must drive two ground rods.
That's just a quick summary of the rules, see Article 250 of the NEC for the exact text.
Cheers, Wayne
TV, stereo, table lamps, that sort of stuff. Seems to me that if I have to put the 3/4 bath on it's own circuit and I'm running a 20amp circuit for the wet bar I don't really need a 20amp circuit for the outlets in the rest of the room. When you do that you also buy the
20amp outlets instead of the 15amp ones?
Water is plastic and it's not worth the hassle to get at the rebar in the footing. Walls are block up to 24" above grade. So I'll be going copper rod at the power entrance.
The only time you are required to use a 20 amp receptacle is when the receptacle is fed by a dedicated 20 amp circuit. It's very common to use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp branch circuit. Given the minimial price difference between 14/2 and 12/2 Romex, I think it makes sense to only run 20 amp circuits.
Cheers, Wayne
OK, so you'll need two ground rods.
Wayne
Interesting. I would have thought that would be a problem. After all you could pull 20amps through one outlet without causing a fault if it's breakered at 20amps. Not that I really have a problem with it since I realize in real life you are much more likely to have several loads that add up. Just sort of surprised cause it seems like the sort of thing that would be disallowed by the code.
I am going to use 20 amp outlets on the 20 amp circuit in the garage circuit but there is a lot more chance of a single large load in a garage.
My understanding is that, at least for spec grade and above, the innards of a 15 amp and 20 amp receptacle are identical; the only difference is the extra slot for the T-shaped neutral prong. I've never even seen any equipment with a 20 amp plug, so practically there is little value to the 20 amp receptacle.
Cheers, Wayne
That's really good to know. Perhaps I'll just use the regular outlets on the garage floor then. I agree, never see anything with that odd plug. Thanks :-)
nope, it's not needed or required. In fact, i've never seen in my whole life a need for the "20A" outlets.
steve
Actually you worded that wrong. The only time you are required to use a "20A" outlet is when it is the ONLY SINGLE (not duplex) outlet on the circuit.
steve
I have seen the need... I got a bunch of outlet strips once (Tripplite ones, nice--designed for use on back of workbenches). They had 20 amp plugs on them! The *only* time I've seen 20A plugs on a commercial product.
But they were easily fixed, a pair of needle nose pliers and a 90 degree twist and they magically fit a standard 15A outlet just fine!
TV, stereo, table lamps, that sort of stuff. Seems to me that if I have to put the 3/4 bath on it's own circuit and I'm running a 20amp circuit for the wet bar I don't really need a 20amp circuit for the outlets in the rest of the room. When you do that you also buy the
20amp outlets instead of the 15amp ones?*Whenever I use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit I pigtail the receptacles instead of feedthrough. For feedthrough on a 20 amp circuit I always use 20 amp receptacles. The exception to this is 15 amp GFI receptacles that are also rated for 20 amp feedthrough. I am not familiar with every brand and grade of receptacles, but unless it states rated for 20 amp feedthrough on the package or the device I would not use it that way. I know that many electricians and inspectors accept the 15 amp device as feedthrough, but I have yet to see documentation from a manufacturer stating that it is approved for that purpose. One of these days I will contact some manufacturers and see what they say about this.
Most of the time you don't see an appliance or tool for home that has a 20 amp plug on it. It is usually in commercial, industrial or restaurant locations that you see equipment with a 20 amp plug on it.
You may just want to wire everything for 20 amps since you will have only a few circuits. It could cut down on leftover wire at the end of the job. However you might need to increase some of your box sizes to accommodate the larger conductors.
Got a bunch of lights to do as well so I'll need some 14/2 anyway. But the box I got was one of those "value packages" that came with 5
20 amp breakers so I might as well run 12/2 for all the outlets. You pigtail instead of using the push in connection to carry on? I can see that since I'm often finding poor connections using the push in. Ever just not cut the wire, instead strip a section and loop it on the screw terminals?HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.