This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were
wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer.
Person #1: We could throw it into the pond.
Person #2: I wonder if it would float?
...silence for a moment, as people think about that...
Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float.
Everyone: Ooh...good point!
...silence for a while....
Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen.
What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among
people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the
NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things
(To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or
marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making
Sorry to have to tell you this so many years later, but those people
may have been sharing a common cultural reference: Monty Python and
the Holy Grail. This conversation echoes the very funny witch scene.
I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was
relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through
trees? to which he said No.
Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to
avoid trees in front of their dishes.
And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to
show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show
that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more
stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing.
Haven't been reading these postings but did look in and
noticed this one on satellite going through trees. You are
right, they don't. I had a tree that I thought was clear
and it was until it grew another 10 feet sideways and
blocked the signal. Had to move the dish down the back of
the garage some 20 feet to be sure.
Satellite signals are in the 4 GHz range and can be blocked by thunderstorms
as well as trees, etc. Also, any upgrades to a dish will probably be to
either the software or possibly the feed horn, so the installation itself is
relatively permanent. Over a few years we've had a few feed elements
replaced, which isn't a big deal. --
Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm currently on my third dish
antenna from DirecTV, for instance. If there's a bright side, though,
the mounting hole pattern on the dishes does appear to stay the same.
Here's the scenario with my 3 dishes:
Dish 1 - Standard dish
Dish 2 - Upgrade to HDTV
Dish 3 - Upgrade to receive local HDTV channels and HDTV from new
Uh huh! I get it now. That's what gets hot in microwave ovens too.
We got to get rid of all that water. It seems to cause a lot of
trouble. Aren't there old mines in Utah or Nevada where we could put
I'm definitely guilty of not getting the situation with the swamp
cooler and dish antenna written into the contract. However, I did have
the house reroofed in mid-80s and that contractor did put the roofing
underneath the legs of the swamp cooler. So, unfortunately, I assumed
it was standard practice.
I actually did ask the contractor about the DirecTV antenna since I
have one of the new type that is very difficult to aim. He told me
that wouldn't be a problem since the roofers would put the mounting
plate back in exactly the same holes. Unfortunately, I only got that
verbally and didn't get it in the contract. Even if he had told me,
though, that I would have to remove the antenna, that would have been
OK. I can hire a guy to tune the antenna back in for about $25. Or, I
can do it myself. The roofing job costs $4500.00. So 25 bucks wouldn't
bother me any.
Swamp coolers sit on top of a large sheet-metal duck (18" x 18" I
think) and the legs are there mostly just to offer additional support.
I've actually seen swamp coolers sitting on roofs with no legs at all.
The 4 legs are connected to the corners of the swamp cooler with 2
sheet metal screws. It would be an extremely simple matter to remove
these legs one or two at a time and roof under them and then put them
back on. Swamp coolers are extremely common in my area. It's hard for
me to imagine that roofers are going around the state roofing over the
legs of swamp coolers when they are so easy to remove. Actually, it's
probably a lot easier to remove the legs than it is to roof around
It's good to know that it's not that difficult to do a patch. Maybe
I'll hire someone to do that or perhaps I can do it myself even though
I don't have a clue as to how it's done. It does seem sort of
difficult to me, though. My inclination would be to lay the new
shingles over the top of the old ones and then put a lot of patch
repair stuff around the edges. The situation seems really kludgy to
me, especially after just paying $4500 for a new, 30-year roof.
I will agree that a thoughful contractor would have either assumed it
would have to be removed or at least put it in the contract for you.
Some are very nervous about having a bid that's low enough to keep the
crew working, that's the problem. Those items add to the cost, not by
much but enough to make the bidder nervous. He's thinking, if I don't
mention it or itemize it on the bid then I have a better chance of
winning the job. Then when the guys get on the site they haven't been
told one way or the other.
Agreed. A roofer only needs a few tools and just may not be prepared
for that job even if it is easy it requires a few tools anyway.
Absolutely, you have every right to be dissapointed. Your contactor
should have made sure it was in the contract and that arrangments were
made. But, if you signed the contract then part of the responsiblity
is also yours. You can eventually be happy it will just require more
energy from you, a bummer I know.
Patching is easy since the nails can be removed from the surrounding
shingles by slipping a flat bar underneath. Then new shingles can be
slipped in and nailed. No roofing cement should be needed. You do
need a real roofer to do it if you don't have the confidence. You
should be able find someone who has the smarts to both remove the
equiment and also to make the patch.
What did your contract say about cleanup and swamp coolers?
Sure, I know, you didn't go to the trouble of getting one. You
should have. The job he bid was exactly as he thought it was.
Unfortunately, you didn't do your homework. Shame on you.
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