Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice

[mm]

Don't these signals go through trees?

Rabbit ears work, and I thought the satellite frequencies were higher than UHF.

[krw]

No.

They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees.

[mm]

OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees.

[mm]

A CSCT. A Certified Swamp Cooler Technician.

:)

[Tim Smith]

This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer.

Person #1: We could throw it into the pond.

Person #2: I wonder if it would float?

...silence for a moment, as people think about that...

Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float.

Everyone: Ooh...good point!

...silence for a while....

Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen.

What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things like that.

(To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making everyone loopy).

[tom]

Emoticons do allow for some sarcasm, don't they? Tom

[John Ross]

I found it interesting reading the posts from people saying "he's a roofer, not a swamp cooler installer." I think this illustrates the differences in the way things are done in different parts of the country. I'll bet those posters live in the east where you have your heating and cooling in your basement.

Out in the west, it is very common (until recently) to have the AC and heater or swamp cooler on the roof. It is also not only common, but CODE to have the roofer lift the legs of the units and put the shingles under them and then put some tar around the legs. This is the normal and legal practice!

To the OP: Is a 50 percent deposit even legal in your state? Where I live a contractor can't take more than 10 percent for a deposit. Was he even a licensed contractor?

Second, did it pass city inspection? He did pull a permit, right? Don't pay anything until the inspection and ask the inspector about the cooler. You definitely got a bad job, it's just a matter of if it was not done to code and he will have to fix it.

Whatever happens, given the obvious lack of attention to detail by this guy, I would get a reputable roofer to come out and do an inspection to see if he thinks there is anything that is going to cause big problems. This shouldn't cost more than 100 bucks and is well worth it after dealing with bozos like you did (I had a similar situation and had to do the same thing).

-- John

[JimR]

Satellite signals are in the 4 GHz range and can be blocked by thunderstorms as well as trees, etc. Also, any upgrades to a dish will probably be to either the software or possibly the feed horn, so the installation itself is relatively permanent. Over a few years we've had a few feed elements replaced, which isn't a big deal. --

[Lawrence]

I will agree that a thoughful contractor would have either assumed it would have to be removed or at least put it in the contract for you. Some are very nervous about having a bid that's low enough to keep the crew working, that's the problem. Those items add to the cost, not by much but enough to make the bidder nervous. He's thinking, if I don't mention it or itemize it on the bid then I have a better chance of winning the job. Then when the guys get on the site they haven't been told one way or the other.

Agreed. A roofer only needs a few tools and just may not be prepared for that job even if it is easy it requires a few tools anyway.

Absolutely, you have every right to be dissapointed. Your contactor should have made sure it was in the contract and that arrangments were made. But, if you signed the contract then part of the responsiblity is also yours. You can eventually be happy it will just require more energy from you, a bummer I know.

Patching is easy since the nails can be removed from the surrounding shingles by slipping a flat bar underneath. Then new shingles can be slipped in and nailed. No roofing cement should be needed. You do need a real roofer to do it if you don't have the confidence. You should be able find someone who has the smarts to both remove the equiment and also to make the patch.

[PeterD]

Nope. Not through leaves.

They are, they are microwave. Easily absorbed by water for example. The water in leaves is what makes the trees 'microwave opaque'.

[mg]

Wow! Thanks for all the great information John. With all the ideas you suggest, I have a feeling I'm going to win this one. I'll let you know. I did wonder if some of those other posters were from a different part of the country and really didn't understand the situation.

[Larry Caldwell]

Next time, don't put it on the roof. They work just as well mounted below a window.

[Una]

Sorry to have to tell you this so many years later, but those people may have been sharing a common cultural reference: Monty Python and the Holy Grail. This conversation echoes the very funny witch scene.

Una

[mg]

Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm currently on my third dish antenna from DirecTV, for instance. If there's a bright side, though, the mounting hole pattern on the dishes does appear to stay the same. Here's the scenario with my 3 dishes:

Dish 1 - Standard dish Dish 2 - Upgrade to HDTV Dish 3 - Upgrade to receive local HDTV channels and HDTV from new satellite

[mm]

I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through trees? to which he said No.

Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to avoid trees in front of their dishes.

And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing.

[RicodJour]

I've traveled and worked around the country, and I'm familiar with swamp coolers and roof mount antennae of various sorts. It's not a technical question, it's a liability question. Even if the work is fairly simple, an owner would be shooting themselves in the foot to have untrained people messing with the equipment. A contractor receives no benefit, and exposes themselves to substantially increased liability by touching other systems.

Whether they were the owner's or the contractor's, the assumptions caused the trouble. The OP assumed one thing and the contractor assumed another. There's plenty of blame to go around.

A code violation is not "illegal". It's a code violation. I'm also passably proficient in the major codes, considering that I work with them daily, and know of no requirement that specifies in detail how flashing is to be installed with regards to rooftop structures. Please cite the code you are referring to.

The majority of the country does not require permits for reroofing work. The following is fairly typical:

When Do I Need a Building Permit? Common Procedures that Require a Building Permit: Above & Below Ground Swimming Pools Oil & Gas Heating Units and Tanks Contractor Licensing Plumbing Decks & Patios Public Assembly Demolition of Structures Radio & Television Disk Antennas Fences Rental Permit Fireplaces & Chimneys Retaining Walls Hot Tubs Signs Large Tool Sheds Temporary Structure Lawn Sprinkler Systems Tennis Courts New Additions & Interior Alterations Tree Removal New Homes & Buildings Use Permit

Again, you're assuming a permit and inspections. If the roofer or OP had pulled a permit, and the work was indeed against the still-to-be- cited code, then the work would have been flagged, and the OP wouldn't be writing about the cooler's legs. It's probably safe to assume that no permit was pulled.

What exactly will that accomplish? The only time that an independent report would be of use is if the OP decided to sue and an unknowledgeable person, like a judge, needed an expert's report to hang their hat on. For the amount of money we're talking about, it's extremely unlikely that a lawsuit will come out of this.

R

[Glenn]

Haven't been reading these postings but did look in and noticed this one on satellite going through trees. You are right, they don't. I had a tree that I thought was clear and it was until it grew another 10 feet sideways and blocked the signal. Had to move the dish down the back of the garage some 20 feet to be sure.

[mm]

Uh huh! I get it now. That's what gets hot in microwave ovens too. We got to get rid of all that water. It seems to cause a lot of trouble. Aren't there old mines in Utah or Nevada where we could put the stuff?

[PeterD]

The number of times that I've thought of mounting a microwave oven tube on a sat dish and 'frying' the leaves on the nearest trees... Just burn a hole right through them!

[Eigenvector]

It's not an unfair question to ask. Radio waves go through trees just fine. TV reception goes through trees,