Reaction to walnut

[Swingman]

Notice that half the links I included deal with a plywood cabinet.

[Bill]

I will. Thank you. I'm still reading the article from FWW! : )

[Swingman]

You can certainly dovetail some plywood's, and particularly if the parts dovetailed don't show or are covered with veneer, they don't have to be pretty/master craftsman grade dovetails.

Dowels and floating tenons, and dadoes and rabbets glued and further reinforced with dowels and floating tenons (or glued and screwed), can take the place of M&T joints (and often dovetails) in plywood in many situations, and provide the necessary strength/stiffness to use the method described in the article.

[Bill]

With exposed-dowel joinery on veneered plywood, do you take down the dowel with a sharp chisel?

At least the way the FWW article started, the emphasis concerned natural changes in the wood due to it's environment. I understand we want a "strong box" lying on it's side. I'll keep reading! : )

I might need a "floating tenon" if I attached my plywood box to a natural wood base frame, huh? I like to try to let you know that it's not all going over my head! : )

Cheers, Bill

[Swingman]

Flush cut saw

At least the way the FWW article started, the emphasis concerned natural

Pretty much ...

Not necessarily ...

That part did. :)

Example of one of the principles of this particular casework construction method:

"... if one part meets along another's length, use multiple through tenons."

Notice the through tenons in the photograph (trimmed flush):

[Bill]

Sorry for the duplicate Karl, newsreader error.

Because the length of natural wood is reasonably stable?

[krw]

>I have put quite a bit of thought into my TV-Stand project since I last

You might try (haven't seen anyone point here yet, anyway):

[CW]

With exposed-dowel joinery on veneered plywood, do you take down the dowel with a sharp chisel?

At least the way the FWW article started, the emphasis concerned natural changes in the wood due to it's environment. I understand we want a "strong box" lying on it's side. I'll keep reading! : )

I might need a "floating tenon" if I attached my plywood box to a natural wood base frame, huh? I like to try to let you know that it's not all going over my head! : ) ====================================================================================================== Make it easy on yourself. Get a pocket hole jig.

Cheers, Bill

[Bill]

======================================================================================================

I can't argue with your logic. Paraphrasing a remark I read recently in the introduction of a book on cabinetry and framework: There is an extensive range of technique and devotion with which one may complete a joint... And that was written long before Kreg was created.

[Swingman]

Absolutely nothing wrong with pocket hole joinery, but, with the specific goal of using the previously discussed ideas/principles to mitigate sag in wide casework, particularly plywood casework, pocket hole joinery would not be something I would use as a substitute for the joinery that those principles are based upon.

Pocket hole joinery, not all that unusual to see in some antique furniture, has also been around long before Kreg.

[Leon]

Snip

====================================

The Kreg is simply a jig that is marketed to the common woodworker so that he may recreate a very long accepted practice of using pocket holes.

[Bill]

Swingman wrote: ... it was not until I ran across an article in the Sep/Oct 1999 issue

I finished reading Will Neptune's article last night. I will make a short list of what I gleaned from it later, but it should definitely improve my game! I'll be watching for other of his publications (I noticed he co-authored a book, "Introduction to Fine Woodworking".

He repeated what you quoted at least 3 times: "If a case part joins another at a corner, dovetail it; if one part meets along another's length, use multiple through tenons." : )

Okay (don't push..LOL), here are the highlights of what I gleaned:

--The tenons from the inserts going through the top can help prevent sagging (at least he says so, and it's believable).

--Extra wood is not a bad thing. For instance consider screwing the top to the (solid) "box". Build up extra wood on the sides (inside), between the legs to that there is a nice surface to support the edge of a drawer. I'm not planning on using drawers but it's still a nice idea.

--The notion of a "cleat" to support the panels in the back was a new notion to me.

--He said he generally uses stops on his cabinet doors. That led me to try to figure out what he was talking about and to spend my lunch hour examining hinges. I'll have to decide whether I'll be using a face frame or not. I'm due for another SU session.

Next, I can take a careful look at the links below.

Bill

>>>> Good luck, and let me know if I can answer any questions.

[Bill]

Also, after reading the article, I realized my expectation of what "biscuit joinery" could do for me were probably inflated. In other words, Biscuits are not tenons...

I found the Japanese (zero-set) dowel saw at Harbor Freight today, but they wouldn't accept their recently-expired coupon. It will yield less than $2 savings, but it's the principle of the thing! The saw is remarkably flexible--much more-so than the cashier! : )

>>>>>>> Resulting in:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Good luck, and let me know if I can answer any questions.

[Bill]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, and let me know if I can answer any questions.

After looking at all of your pictures, it makes me sort of ashamed I only have one little TV-Stand to worry about so far! : )

In-set cabinet doors would be a nice touch--though it appears the tolerances for fitting them are quite small!

The article emphasized it would really really look crappy if the vertical inserts are not parallel. It also emphasized the need for a very good fit of the inserts into the dado's, so that the top and bottom stay parallel. So even if I forget everything I learned in the article, I still got a good lesson in craftmanship!

Even as I write, this thing is coming together. I think that this job calls for a TS to easily meet the requirements (of parallel vertical inserts).

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

How do you know? You never met her asking price.

-- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod

[Swingman]

Generally 1/16 to 3/32. That is why 'square' is so important in cabinet making.

Inset doors and drawers are not that difficult as long as the casework is square, and remains that way, does not sag/rack, over time.

Once again, the holy grail is "square" ... as a cabinetmaker, live, or die by it.

One way to insure square is to batch cut every part with the same settings on the machine and, likewise batch cut all like dadoes and grooves, at the same time with the same, undisturbed, machine setup.

As long as your parts are dimensioned properly, batch cutting/routing goes a long way toward obtaining square ... _stock thickness is extremely important, because with sheet goods, thickness is not necessarily the same from one lot/stack of plywood to the next_ .

In short, _batch cut_ all like project parts, and elements (dadoes/grooves, etc) of like size and placement, before disturbing/moving any machine setup, fence, depth, etc.

[Bill]

I believe everything you said. Just choosing my workbench project as an example, some of the 4by4 stuff I used for the legs was a bit warped/twisted. While I am appreciating the significance of "square", I don't take it for granted (anymore)! Hopefully, my plywood will be flat, but I doubt I should count on it. So in a nutshell, "square" has not been a friend of mine, I hardly ever see her, but I'll keep working on that. "Square" is beginning to remind me of the sirens/mermaids that were said to lure the captains of their ships to a shipwreck! ; )

[Swingman]

Batch cut, to the stick, parts ... as we speak:

that's not counting the sixteen, batch cut/routed legs ...

And there is still no guarantee that the bar stools will sit square without a good deal more futzing doing assembly/glue-up

[Swingman]

Here's a nice little "EZ" method/trick, a la Sam Maloof and his "Hollywood style", for taking most of the pain out of doing a bunch of inset doors ... simply round over the door edges.

Doing so makes any imprecision in the gap disappear.

This works particularly well when you use contrasting woods for the face frame and the inset doors, thusly:

that one in your saddle bags, highly useful. ;)

[Bill]

>> Keep that one in your saddle bags, highly useful. ;)

Yes, I see that. TYVM!

I assume that you used biscuits at the corners where the rails and stiles meet? Is that 3/4" plywood (in the "panel" of the door)? Not too heavy, huh?

I picked up my Milwaukee jigsaw today (I had to order it).

I need to do more designing (and I may use your "roundover trick" on the edges of the doors)! I was using my tape measure last night to help measuring my imaginary tv stand along with the TV that will rest on it. It's a good thing I learned about the imaginary numbers! ; )