Question fow wood shop teachers

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Charlie Self wrote:

Yeah, that's a story in of itself. I'll never forget one particular exchange, between myself and a Belgian foreign exchange student who was also working in the language lab. It was the language lab, after all. I was trying to speak French to her. She told me point blank "Shot zee ell op and stope booshereenk my langweedge you peeg."
My response started with an F and ended with a U, but come to think of it, I've never really tried to speak French since, because of this bitch. I've always been really shy about French, and very reluctant to try to use it for anything.

Ah yes. The "brown tide." It has passed us by for the most part here in Montgomery county, although I did get offered a job as a field supervisor for horticultural workers for a screaming $7 an hour. I had to pass on that, as tempting as the prospect of all that money was.
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:06:15 -0500, Silvan
[snip] | |Ah yes. The "brown tide." It has passed us by for the most part here in |Montgomery county, although I did get offered a job as a field supervisor |for horticultural workers for a screaming $7 an hour. I had to pass on |that, as tempting as the prospect of all that money was.
Yes, to hear our government tell it, those are the folks that are just taking jobs that citizens don't want to do: block layers, stucco men, electricians, plumbers, drug dealers, welfare moms, etc.
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:37:29 -0500, Silvan
... snip

Yeah, that would be an awfully big sacrifice on your part; all for the sake of a visual object lesson. ;-)
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The question is not if, but when, to change jobs. Sounds like the company is slowly going into the dumpster. Do you bail out now or wait until they die a slow agonizing death? In that same time period I had a couple of years with no increase, but nothing was taken away. Every company has a bad year but when the slide for five straight, it is time to take a hard look around.
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wrote:

Entry is 28-32k in most of CT, maybe more in some really rich communities, less at parochial schools.
Barry
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Barry writes:

Ew. Not great for the area, when they're getting very close to that here, where taxes and living expenses are much lower.
Age is catching up to me. I once was engaged to a girl teaching school in the Croton-Harmon school district in Westchester County, NY. IIRC, she started at about $100 or $110 a week, say $5400 a year. She was originally from CT, and I think moved back there.
NY had then, and may still, all sorts of adjustments for education to add to the salary.
Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain
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I think my high school shop teacher had one goal. Blood splatter reduction. I do not recall any instruction at all in 2 years of wood shop.
My college instructor introduced the class to the tools, told us not to drop stuff, and do not use your foot to stop a sharp chisel from hitting the floor. He told use at the start there would be no power sanders available and no stain was allowed. The next thing he had us do was sketch a project and then draw it to scale. Buy some wood and start building. He had helpers there to work with the less skilled. Helpers are a good thing but in high school the wood nerds might not get the respect they deserve.

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Jim Behning wrote:

My High School teacher was into blood splatter reduction, unless he was the one splattering our blood! He ruled with an iron fist and a two by four and if you didn't comply with the letter of HIS LAW you could find yourself sitting at a drafting table trying to make a satisfactory rendering of a nut or a bolt. Really, I can't remember him ever having to resort to anything more than threats and drafting to keep us under control. There was one time he took a kid out to the loading dock for a little "man to Man" but neither of them spoke of it, ever. That kid stayed with him for four years of class and wound up being a fine cabinet maker. He was a dinosaur in the education world in 1980 and one of the best guys I ever had the pleasure of BS'ing with. He truly believed that everyone deserved a shot at the good life and he was going to equip them for the task even if it killed them.
If your Principal will stand behind your enforcement of the basic rules of survival in a shop class I say go for it. "Cool" kids won't come around if you make them wear an apron and silly glasses the entire time they are on the shop floor.
J.
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As a retired "shop" teacher from Texas who was turned into a computer teacher 'cause these students are all going to college' then a "tech" teacher which is shop without the tools-- computer based, some of you younger folks might even have taken my class or one like it... but I digress , I feel compelled to jump in. BTW - I taught Middle school Industrial technology-- so all of my comments are directed from that level VERRRRRy beginning Teach safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety- Make 'em pass a general safety test to do any kind of work with hand tools-- (enforce your safety rules-- If kids are unsafe, they should be sent to the office- or given whatever safety related punishment/reinstruction (can I say punishment anymore these days?) that will reinforce the rule that was broken.
I cannot stress enough that chronically unsafe children should not be in the shop setting.!!!!! Before I would take on even a part time situation like that I would have to come to some agreement with administration on that factor alone. Most partents who have children in a shop classroom expect you as a teacher, to look out for their kids. I once told an administrator (and also the parent of a troubled youth- consistant -safety violator) that "neither I nor they could afford to have this student in a sharp tool enviornment-- the lawyers will eat us up"-- BTW- the student was removed to another, safer elective. I used to give a class on each power tool- along with the associated safety rules & safety demonstration-and application demonstration- then students had to pass a safety test on that tool before being allowed to use it --Then they had to ask permission to use the tool & tell me what they were going to use it for ( a chart, a listing of the names of students who had passed each test could be posted (now a days, the chart would most likely have to be your eyes only as not to embarass someone & spark a lawsuit)was handy, so I could see which kid had actually passed the test. Also, each student had to give me a practical demonstration of the tool (also could be added to the chart). No student was allowed to use the table saw-- Most were way too short & didn't have the reach-- Only a few could use the band saw (tough test). Most could use the jig saws , lathes, drill presses, stationary sanders, and the jointer with my supervision only. Most could use the surface planer-- but I had to inspect each glued up section for glue -- I made them scrape it ALL off-- sharpening the 'ol Powermatic was a real pain. Power sanders -- vibrating- Rockewll- could only be used if the area they were sanding was lager than the sanding pad of the sander, Otherwise, they scraped & sanded if necessary. If you are going to teach design, the kids almost have to be in the class for a year. Typically, the kids I had were in my class for a semester-- some only six weeks. If you find yourself in that position-- semester first: Safety many times-- Safety poster contest-- video is great interdisciplinary coursework-- prize? up to you & the administration. If the class is quick, you might be able to do a little design, drafting & execution of projects. 9 weeks class-- almost impossible to teach design-- hard enough in 18 weeks-- best to have a number of demostration projects with available plans after you do all the safety education & tool demonstrations 6 weeks-- hand tools only for a very limited selection of projects-- almost kits (you make the kits) The less time you have with the kids, the more materials prep you will have to do. That will take up your conference period and some after school hours. Disclaimer: I'm not really advocating that kids be run through a program tht only allows a set amount of sterile projects to be made-- Kids should have the ability to design, draw and implement anything their hearts desire. The time I had with an individual child dwindled from over two years (1976) as a two year possible elective-- to a semester (1999)-- then the six graders started rotating every six weeks----Remember one thing-- The kids will make what they see you make, so show them quality stuff if possible---- sorry group-- got carried away Phil
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Entry level? My mom teaches in OK, and when I graduated from college, I started out as an engineer making more than her _30 year_ salary, which means she was making less than 45K.
Entry level there is about 24K, and gas station attendants make about that much starting out. And that is indeed sad.
I would be a teacher if it wasn't for that nonsense.
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"Mike H." wrote in message

Addressed in my "Modest Proposals for Good Government":
No politician can be paid more than a school teacher. No lawyer can hold public office. Violation of public trust is a capital offense.
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Swingman responds:

Add to that my corollary: Any politician elected to office must serve a minimum of two years in prison before taking the oath of office.
Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain
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"Charlie Self" wrote in message

minimum
LOL ... Actually, I think that was my Dad's philosophy on raising kids. I remember getting a whipping _before_ we got somewhere, as an example of what it would be like if I misbehaved.
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Swingman responds:

Damn. I remember that now. And it didn't work too well.
Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain
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that
What a load of fertilizer.
Paying more doesn't get you more, especially in people. The problem is actually the opposite - people who view teaching as a calling, and would work for a wage sufficient to support a single (with summer work) or supplement a marriage, are turned off by the wage-grubbers and union thugs demanding more and more money. When you motivate with money, you get people whose only motivation is more money.
Unfortunately, teachers as a group also have less education, lower SAT/ACT scores, and less respect for education than other groups. Even when the contract _guarantees_ a substantial pay raise for putting in the time for a masters, few get one. I don't even want to comment on the content of those "teacher" courses. I took academic.
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"George" wrote in message

Lighten up, George ... your sanctimonious preaching fits the day, but not the situation.
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And just what is more important to the future of the Republic than learning?
Your "thinking" is about as light as it gets.
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"George" wrote in message

not
learning?
And how on earth did you come up with "learning" wasn't important from the above?

Judging from the out-of-leftfield assumption above, your "thinking" apparently suffers from twisted panties today, George ... Kiss my ass.
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Swingman wrote:

BLRMPH! Where do I send the dry cleaning bill?
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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Mike H. wrote:

college, I

which
that
I would like to speak up here. My grandmother, mother, aunt and sister are all educators; my grandfather, cousin and uncles are/were bus drivers and my dad sat on our parish school board for a number of years, so I've been on "the other side" of education pretty much my whole life.
I think that teachers do okay money-wise, and here's why: 1. GOOD retirement plan 2. Good, relatively inexpensive benefit package 3. No nights, holidays, weekends, etc. 3. Less work. Teachers work as hard, they just don't work as often. Assuming a 40-hour work week, a teacher works 1440 hours a year, versus 2000 hours (36 weeks versus 50) for a "regular" job.
I'm not saying that teachers make enough money. If we want well-educated kids, we need well-paid teachers. I am, however saying that the pay per hour for school teachers isn't as abysmally low as it seems when looking at it from a yearly salary perspective.
Like Charlie Self pointed out earlier, if Silvan (or Glen, for that matter to make up for his loss of Dept Head pay) wants to, there are plenty of summer jobs available. The field that comes to mind immediately is construction. The pay per hour is probably going to be less than than teaching, but it is after all a summer job. If you're not afraid to sweat and I do mean SWEAT), mason tenders are ALWAYS in short supply, and the pay is decent. Another option less hard on the body is carpentry. If you can lay out and build a chess board, you can frame a house. It takes a while to learn.... I digress.
To Glen, I say go for it. You obviously have the tools to be an educator, so what's the difference, conceptually, between teaching science and teaching shop? The mechanics may differ, but a shop setting (I would imagine) would be a bit like a lab setting in a science class.
Sorry if I stepped on any teachers' toes.
-Phil Crow
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