Question about insulating shop

I recently built a new garage/shop. Being in northern Illinois, it occasionally gets cold here in the winter, so I'm going to insulate it. There is a second floor with an area that if I built a 3 foot knee wall would be about 15'x19'. Currently, it's just storage space, but I could potentially see putting a desk up there in the future. I've told my wife that when my little girls get to be teenagers, I'm putting a fridge, TV, and computer out there to hideout from the craziness. So, this space isn't going to be heated right now, but could be in the future. I'm trying to decide whether to just insulate between the floor joists or to skip that and insulate the rafters. If it makes any difference, the floor joists are 2x12. I'm insulating the walls, of course.
todd
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IMO, you'd save a lot of heat my just doing the rafters for now. If you decide to use that space 10 years from now insulate then.
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RE: Subject
Ask yourself two (2) questions.
1) What, if I don't do it now, will be more difficult 10 years from now?
2) What are the odds I will still be living here 10 years from now?
Lew
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Lew
After what you conveyed to your dearly beloved the odds are pretty good!
Bob AZ
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Also consider that the dollar amount of insulation is going to go up. Right now, we're seeing some pretty large price changes due to the price of fuel (or so they say.) If it continues it's upward hike, you'll have to be a millionaire to insulate later.
Puckdropper
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If you don't insulate between the floor joists, you'll be heating the second floor every time you heat the first floor, whether you use the second floor or not. Since heat rises, you'll have a hard time ever getting the first floor warm. Insulate between the joists now. If you decide to use the second floor, you can between the rafters then.
DonkeyHody "In theory, theory and practice are the same; but in practice, they are not."
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wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines. However, do I need to take the vapor barrier into consideration? If I insulate the joists with faced insulation, the vapor barrier would be installed facing the 1st floor. If I subsequently insulate the 2nd floor, do I need to worry about the preexisting vapor barrier?
todd
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On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:50:16 -0500, todd wrote:

I assume you'll be putting a finish (sheet rock) on the ceiling, and not putting a finish on the rafters just yet. So, don't put a vapor barrier on the bottom of the joists. Even if you don't insulate the rafters now, -do- put a vapor barrier there. You can always remove it later to put in insulation.
And sheet plastic, with tape over the joints, is way more effective than paper or foil faced insulation.
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DonkeyHody wrote:

Are two story houses insulated between floors so you don't have to heat the entire house? If it were me I'd insulate the rafters and close (door etc.) the not yet used space off. Insulating the joists now and the rafters later signifigantly raises the total cost for virtually no gain. Rod
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todd wrote:

Personally, I'd do both now. It'll cost less now than in the future, be less work overall, plus will be a decent storage place relatively immune from the summer heat. If it were me, I know danged well I'd use it for storage until I needed my own "padded room" for later on <g>. Do the padding of the walls/ceiling later though; you have no idea how much you'll need right now :-)
I'll bet you'll want a dest et al up there sooner than you think. Just being realistic; remember we expand to fill all available space.
Pop`
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todd wrote:

Being a Northern Illinois (Woodstock)guy myself, I'd opt to insulate both if you can afford it now.
My garage shop is one level ~ 16'x24'. A 3500 watt ceiling mounted fan type heater with built in thermostat keeps it at 45-48 degrees throughout the winter for relatively little cost and no smell (used to use a kerosene salamander type heater (with all the attendant risks, etc. involved)).
Considering your potential usage, more (insulation) is better. Better to do it now than later. It's always a PITA ripping up ANY floor or ceiling to add insulation. Think of the sound/dust infiltration to your hideaway if nothing else. Hell, I'd even think about laying down a thick sheet of polyethylene film atop the floor joists on the second floor before placing the decking down on the second level.
All that insulation will lower your cooling costs as well. Yeah! After SWMBO saw how nice and convenient the heater was, she asked where I was going to put the A/C. Gave her "that" look figuring she was busting my stones. She wasn't. That same summer the Sawzall came out as did a small section of the wall into which was inserted a 10,000 BTU A/C. I can hide out there with my stereo and television (ran antenna and phone lines underground along with the electric and water when I built the garage).
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Woodstock eh, I'm in Crystal Lake. I go to Woodsoct all the time for the Popeyes Chicken, LOL
Neil Larson

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Neil Larson wrote:

And I go to Crystal Lake all the time for, wood roasted Chicken (the place next to TJ Maxx and Pablo's)and Chili's.
My shop, I should have said, is MAINTAINED at 45-48 degrees with that electric ceiling heater. When I crank it up, I can hold the shop in the midp's or better though I've never tried to get it over 80 degrees. If I recall correctly, I skimped on the insulation and that is with R-11 in the walls and ceiling.
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Is that heater electric?
The propane one I have is ok, but I was thinking of adding some electric heat in addition. I also added a 8K BTU A/C last year, It works fine.

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Neil Larson wrote:

Yep. Pretty sure it's 3500 watt, would have to check to make sure. Running on a dedicated 30 amp circuit. I put up with a damn Redi-Heater for years to maintain a decent temp when I had projects going and would supplement that with a KeroSun heater when I was out there working. This unit, believe it's a Dayton Electric, has them all beat. Compact, clean, cheap compared to kerosene, and out of the way. That's all I have out there for heat and it's great.
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Where in Northern Illinois? I'm in Crystal Lake, about 60 Miles from Chicago and 45 from Rockford.
Anyway, I have a stand alone shop, it is small, about 18 X 24 with a second floor. I have insulated the first floor and have the loft to go, then I need to do a vapor barrier and some form of finish. I do know that I won't use drywall, cost is too high and the durability is too low. Lowes has some stuff that is like Fiber Board in 1/8" that is pre finish in white and goes for about 6 bucks a sheet. I really want the white for light.
I have a propane heater in the shop, in our Illinois winters with only half the building insulated, full blast will barely get the temp to 50 degrees. I think after it is all done, I should be able to keep it at about 60 fairly cheap. I too have not yet found a use for my loft, I was thinking of putting my Drawing board and a desk up there in a little dormer window area that I have and some basic furniture. I also thought about moving my lathe up there to avoid getting the wet shavings on my table saw and other tools.
Decisions, decisions.
Neil Larson

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