OT: Electrical Fire

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wrote:>>Typically it only happens

Correct, but mostly only affects the GFI outlet. Bigger demands will generelly trip the circuit breaker.
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On 7/4/2010 9:08 PM, Leon wrote:

If you want to be precise, a GFCI trips on an imbalance in currents between hot and neutral If it's tripping under a load from a power tool you really should find the leakage path and fix it.

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i thought it was between the neutral and ground? shelly
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On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:18:43 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@stny.rr.com wrote:

Nope. Hot and neutral. If there is an imbalance between the hot and the neutral, there is current going somewhere it shouldn't. This imbalance can be measured very accurately and the circuit "interrupted".
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wrote:

but the gfci should also monitor (and cut out on) any current flow at all between the hot and ground - hence the term ground fault - or am i completely mistaken?
shelly
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On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:54:06 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@stny.rr.com wrote:

Not quite. Any current that "gazintas" the hot and doesn't "gazouta" the neutral must be "flowing" through a fault to ground, hence the "ground fault". So yes, if you have a fault from the hot to the ground the GFCI will trip, but not because there is current in the ground, rather because the current in the neutral doesn't match, rather precisely, the current in the hot. Of course this is AC, so I'm playing very loose with the highly technical terms, "gazinta" and "gazouta". ;-)
A ground isn't even necessary for a GFCI to work properly. In fact, one of the important uses for GFCIs is a substitution for the safety ground in existing structures that have no safety ground. It's not a replacement because there is no connection to the ground pin but it will protect in the case of a fault.
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wrote:

thx for the info!!! shelly
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On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:54:06 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@stny.rr.com wrote:

No need to monitor current flow between hot and ground. If current flow between hot and neutral is not equal then it is going somewhere it shoud NOT.
Hence a GFCI works with no metal ground wire in the set up.
If the currents are not equal then TURN OFF.
Simple.
Of course there are various sensitivities for various purposes and in different juristictions.
Some trip at 5ma and some at 30ma and I am sure there are others.
John G.
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Your wiring has a leak to ground.
When you shut off the power tool they generate high voltage spikes on your wiring and the high voltage spike finds the nick in the insulation and the GFCI sees it and does it's thing. This soculd be in the tool also.
WTF are you doing sharing a GFCI in your bathroom with the garage and kitchen?...LOL
Nobody ever use a hairdryer while your engine block heater cuts in or a kettle gets plugged in?
Not always the case , I have a GFCI in my bathroom, it covers my 2 boathrooms, out door outlets, kitchen, and garage outlets. It is not unusual for that thing to trip under a load form a power tool.
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Was the rat OK? PETA wants to know about the poor fellow.
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wrote the following:

Riddle me this:
How do you lose a 1,200A/480V switchboard and NOT lose the rat, Ed? Hell, it was so crispified, Colonel Sanders couldn't even use it over at Kentucky Fried Rat.
-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron
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Lightening?
Puckdropper wrote:

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On 04 Jul 2010 01:44:57 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote the following:>I went to turn the pool pump on today and noticed the outlet the timer

You might ask for references, hourly prices, quote for the job, and what they feel is the cause of the failure. It could have been something as simple as a loose connection at the outlet which built up enough resistance that heat built up and caused the meltdown. Was it the proper metal-canned high-wattage timer or a cheap plastic plugin, Pucky? What size pool/pump?
-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron
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The timer was a $15-20 outdoor timer rated at 15A for all types of loads. The pump is a 1.5 horse motor, with 15A on the motor information sticker.
I've looked in to better timers, and there's one for somewhere around $70 that can handle up to 24A. That's more than the circuit breaker.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

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"Puckdropper" wrote:

----------------------------- IOW, you're basic POS resi device.
You need a timer with a 2HP@120V rated set of contacts.
Lew
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Yeah, basically. It said something on the back about 15A motor load rating, but the outlet in the timer was 16 gauge wire.
I'm looking at replacing it with this timer: (Amazon.com product link shortened)- Outdoor/dp/B000BVZB3E/ref=dp_cp_ob_hi_title_1
I have to replace the cord on the pump motor anyway, so it's no big deal to cut the plug off and wire it in to the timer box.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

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"Puckdropper" wrote:

-------------------------------------- Intermatic has been around forever, good choice.
You don't need it now, but I'd get a 2 pole device rather than a 1 pole.
Down the road, you might want this timer for 240V service.
Lew
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On 05 Jul 2010 08:55:13 GMT, Puckdropper

There ya go! Perfect.
-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron
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On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 22:53:38 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

INDUCTIVE-rated horsies!
-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron
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On 05 Jul 2010 05:09:29 GMT, Puckdropper

An outdoor pump should have a hardwired timer which can handle a higher amperage than any plug-in style.
http://fwd4.me/Vjo 240v http://fwd4.me/Vjp 120v http://fwd4.me/Vjq cheaper digital 120v
Ask the electrician. He probably has one in the truck with him or can bring one.
-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron
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