dovetail saw tpi question.

Hi All.
I am practicing making through dovetails and they seem to come out more or less fine ( rather less ) but not perfect, actually far from perfect. I am using relatively large ryoba and really feel that this saw does not give me enough control particularly at the beginning of the cut as it have quite large teeth and about 10 tpi. So, as you can guess I am in a business of shopping for some real dovetail saw. I have set my mind on dozuky but after looking around on internet I got a bit confused about appropriate tpi for such saw. I can already see that 10 tpi is not good enough. Particularly I have question about this one http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' it has only 13 tpi. Would this saw be fine? Woodcraft, for example, has some dozukies with 26 tpi. What do you recommend?
Thanks, Dmitri
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dmitri asks:

Lee Valley's dovetail saw has 17 tpi, and the also carry the Pax, with 20. I get good results with the Lee Valley. YMMV.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat 29 Nov 2003 02:55:05a, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote in

Yeah, I'll go with Charlie. My first dovetail wasn't a Ryoba, it was a cheapo from one of the big boxes but I had the same problem you did. Getting that cut started right was just about impossible. I splurged the 16 bucks or so for the basic Lee Valley Gent's saw at Woodcraft and the difference was dramatic. Lovely little saw.
I suppose I should mention that it didn't turn me into a master dovetail cutter. I guess you have to buy the more expensive saws for that...
Dan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi, Dmitri, I use a dozuki for fine jointing work. Some people may quibble that a dozuki is optimised for crosscutting in softwoods:- although ideally a dovetail saw should have teeth designed for ripping, you're not cutting very far, so it doesn't really signify.
I've come to prefer my Japanese saws to any of my Western ones, which seem clumsy in comparison They're not really resharpenable unless you have special feather files and eyes like a hawk, but if you treat them well, they'll last for years on this type of work
HTH
Frank

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It kind of depends. In an issue of some WWing mag that compared Japanese and western DT saws, a seller of Japanese tools -- Japan Woodworker I think -- said Japanese WWers prefer the cut to be rough when cutting dovetails. This allows the rough wood fibers to help bind the joint with a minimal amount of glue. American WWers tend to like a smooth cut when cutting DTs.
There's no right or wrong as long as your joints look good. :-) However, if you're having trouble starting your cuts with the larger teeth you may want to try starting the cut with the smaller teeth of the xcut side of your ryoba and then turn the saw over and use the rip teeth to cut through the rest. I do this all the time.
Layne
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Layne wrote:

My crosscut side of ryoba has bigger set on teeth. So, that does not seem to work and I am not sure I want to change set.
--
Dmitri


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My L/N Independence saw is 15 tpi and does a great job. I prefer the Western saws. :-)

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The set may be wider but the teeth are smaller, no? The smaller teeth are able to start the cut easier. You definately don't want to alter the set of the teeth. The teeth on Japanese saws are harder and thus more brittle. You could risk breaking the teeth if you try to alter the set if you don't know what you're doing. Also, the set on Japanese saws (even mass produced ones) are typically more precise than that of typical American and British saws you get at the local hardware store.
But, if you're having touble cutting DTs you might want to get a smaller saw. A ryoba is designed for bigger, rougher cuts. You can use it for bigger DT work, like say carpentry. Check out www.japanwoodwoker.com for some moderately priced dozuki saws with xcut teeth or rip teeth to use on finer work.
Layne usual disclaimers apply
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(Layne) wrote in message

I'd second this advice. I used a mini-dozuki panel saw (see http://www3.woodcraft.com/Saws/woodworking/4237.htm ) for several years before I plunked down the bucks for the L-N IT saw. It has a reasonable set, good tpi and I found it to be a good size for doing fine work. It's probably optimal for cutting in softwoods, but will still do the job in hardwood.
Currently I usually use my L-N saw, but every so often I'll pick up the dozuki, and it still seems to do the job just fine. The style of handle makes it more prone to wander off vertical than the Western style (IME), but it still is a very good saw, and will outperform most any Western saw you can find for the money (unless you are talking about old saws, but that's a whole different thread).
Chuck Vance
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Layne wrote:

I could use cross-cut side of the ryoba of course but the ryoba itself does not have back support and flatters left and right a bit. Dozuki must be an appropriate saw for cutting dovetails. But my question was more about tpi. This saw http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' has only 13 tpi. Would this saw be appropriate for cutting perfect or nearly perfect (that is what I set me mind on, perfect dovetail) :) dovetails?
--
Dmitri


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.