Comparison

[Dr. Deb]

Some time ago I asked if any of you were in a position to try a comparison between the Forrest WoodWorker II and the Harbor Frieght blade (SKU 46231)

Freight having the reputation they do for selling cheap tools, I got no takers, and was not overly surprised.

SWMBO, gave me a "US Grant" for Father's Day and I put it back in the deepest recesses of the wallet. Finally, I decided to take the plunge and buy a Forrest WoodWorker II (40tooth, 1/8" kerf). So shopping around I found it on Amazon for $107.00 and hit the "Order" button. The package arrived today and, of course, I had to check it out.

After peeling the protective coating off it, I mounted it in my Ridgid 3650 tablesaw and made a couple of test cuts. I stepped back, scratched my head and said, "Hmmmmmm." So, I got a fresh HF 46231, mounted it and made a couple of test cuts. Then I remounted the Forrest WWII, got a 7/4 piece of Southern Red Oak and did an an crosscut and an rip cut. Swapped out the Forrest for the HF blade and made the crosscut and rip on the other end and side of the same pieces of red oad.

Bottom line, the Forrest is going back. There was very little, if any noticable difference. If there was a difference the HF blade gave the better cut. On the first pass in the rip cut with the Forrest, I noticed a tooth mark, rather severe, so I moved the rip fence over 1/4" and recut. It had the same thing, in the same place.

The HF blade is only C3, so it will need to be sharpened a bit more often, but at $19.50, you can almost get a new blade rather than have it sharpened.

To be very honest, I was extremely surprised. But, it is what it is.

As a disclaimer, the ONLY HF blade I would use is the 46231. My bandsaw blades are Woodslicers, my router bits are all name brand. In other words, I do want quality.

What I would really like to see is a lab test between these two. But for my test, on my saw, in my shop, there is no justification in paying six times the cost of the HF for the Forrest.

Deb

[tiredofspam]

Ok, so lets take a look at how you tested it.

Did you have the stabilizer on the WWII blade and the HF blade? Is your saw properly aligned. Did you have any burning?

Since you say there is a tooth mark, my guess is your saw is not aligned correctly.

Have you used a dial indicator on your fence to check that it doesn't bow. (you clamp the dial indicator mounted to a block of wood to a miter gauge that has no play. then run the miter back and forth and verify the fence)?

A good blade can't correct an un-aligned saw.

If all things are good, then by all means go return it.

[Leon]

FWIW you absolutely do not need a stabilizer on a WWII 1/8" kerf blade.

[Leon]

Something was not right.

If you are seeing tooth marks with either either blade your saw is not properly aligned pr your wood is not perfectly straight. A great blade will only cut as well as the saw is set up.

Is your wood perfectly straight?

If you absolutely confident that you saw is set up properly I would suspect a damaged Forrest blade. These things get tossed around during shipping just like everything else.

Seriously I am extremely happy with the results of my WWII and I have been doing this seriously for 30+ years. I have only been using a Forrest since 1999. No blade has cut as well for me as the Forrest.

[Swingman]

Seeing how all cuts were made on the same saw, with the same setup, I see no other explanation ... that particular Forrest blade is apparently not up to the standards we are used to.

I would return it regardless.

That said, it would interesting to try both blades on a well setup cabinet saw to see the how they fare.

I've seen quite a few inexpensive blades made the first few dozen cuts quite nicely, but you generally needed three or four blades to get through a project; while a Forrest will take you through a dozen or more of the same size projects with the same quality cuts.

[tiredofspam]

Still the quality of cut from a Forrest I never see saw marks unless the blade is dull, or the piece didn't get fed through right (ie pulled away from fence)

I still don't suspect the blade. I suspect the saws alignment.

[Pat Barber]

We all have our favorites and while you don't think there is any real difference in a $100 and $20 blade, just think about this the next time you are standing in front of that spinning blade with blade tips going a few hundred feet per second toward you:

1. Who brazed those tips on and with what ??
2. Who inspected that blade and made sure it was perfectly flat ?
3. Who made sure that the blade is perfectly balanced for 4,500 r.p.m. ?
4. Has the person doing that ever seen a table saw ?

Finding a serious comparison is very unlikely.

Don't forget to wear your safety glasses and Kevlar vest while woodworking.

[dpb]

...

We don't know that; all we know is that it wasn't reported, not that there wasn't a mark...

...

No, he didn't say "much better" (altho unless there's something funny going on I'm presuming a "Deb" is a she rather than a he) -- it was "little if any noticeable difference"

No, but a a poorly aligned saw can (and probably will) make a good blade look no better than or even worse than a poor one...if it's not cutting in line, neither is the other one and neither is up to what might be if aligned properly.

--

[CW]

...

We don't know that; all we know is that it wasn't reported, not that there wasn't a mark...

...

No, he didn't say "much better" (altho unless there's something funny going on I'm presuming a "Deb" is a she rather than a he) -- =============================================================== In the original post, Deb makes a reference to SWMBO and getting the money for fathers day.

[G. Ross]

After reading all the replies so far I am left wondering---If the Forrest had made a good cut and the HF blade left a tooth mark, would anyone have suggested checking the saw alignment? Otherwise I am staying neutral.

[dpb]

_Inferred_, not precisely stated.

...

...

Not necessarily. It's quite possible (and I'd say probable) that the imprecision in the cheaper covered up defects in the saw the more precise blade made apparent.

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[John Grossbohlin]

Out of curiosity, was the board recently face jointed, thicknessed and edge jointed? The tooth mark comment makes me think the board wasn't tracking through the blade evenly.... or a splitter/riving knife was causing it to torque as it was feeding due to the splitter/riving knife being out of alignment.

John

[dpb]

On 7/26/2012 1:33 PM, G. Ross wrote: ...

I'd _always_ question saw setup as well as technique in any comparison...

I'd also in a comparison measure runout, etc., etc., etc., to know.

I'd _ESPECIALLY_ do such stuff if my intent were to post the results (which effort to do such meticulous reporting is why you'll never find me actually publishing such comparisons! :) ).

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[-MIKE-]

That's what I was thinking. See how it's cutting, not months from now, but weeks. C3 is the Doug Fir of the carbide world when it comes to hardness. :-)

[John Grossbohlin]

That's part of the reason why I was asking if the board had been face jointed, thicknessed and edge jointed recently... since he was working both sides of the board with the two blades if the board wasn't "perfect" it may have not feed through smoothly on one edge while it did on the other.

John

[Dr. Deb]

As to the questions:

1) Yes the saw is set up right 2) Yes the alignment on the fence is right 3) The cuts were made on the opposite end and side of the same piece of red oak, the only difference was the blade.

I will fully admit, I was extremely surprised.

Could it be that the Forrest blade was faulty? That is certainly possible.

For those who said, "Use the one that gives the best cut." That is exactly what I am going to do - in fact the Forrest is on its way back to Amazon.

IF, repeat "IF," I were a production woodworker, knowing the testimonies and reputation of the Forrest, I would have gone for a replacement. However, I am a hobbyist. I enjoy the work and am learning all the while. That being said, the C3 on the HF blade will probably last me as long as the C4 on the Forrest blade will last those of you who do production work.

Lastly, it looks as if the HF blade is a good "learning blade" for those of us who are just starting out and need something that will give a good cut, but not gouge the wallet too deeply. Later, as we grow our skills and find the need something like the Forrest, we can move up.

Thanks for all the comments.

Deb

Dr. Deb wrote:

[Swingman]

If the tool does the job that you need it to do, nothing else need be said.

[-MIKE-]

Except: Festool.

Oh, and oakrust.

[Lew Hodgett]

---------------------------------- Nuf said.

Trying to save $80 on the cost of a high performance (high risk) tool such as a carbide tooth saw blade is pure folly IMHO.

Lew

[dpb]

On 7/26/2012 2:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: ...

There's really little direct evidence. There's an account.

I (like many others here) have enough experience over 50+ yrs and have used enough Forrest and other similar quality blades to have a pretty good database stored to know they do simply perform better than inexpensive ones in general.

If one does find an exception to that, I'd expect it to be an aberration easily explained by either damage as Leon mentioned or other conditions.

Again, that a new HF may seem to cut similarly to a good blade on a poorly tuned saw isn't a surprise, either. Misalignment and/or runout negates much of the advantage of having a very good blade. Just as a novice violinist won't/can't make a Strad sound much better than his practice violin; he just doesn't have the skill yet to make use of the quality of the instrument.

Accept or no; it's so and makes no difference to me whether do or not.

As OP says in his followup he's a hobby user--it likely doesn't matter much as yet as it may later on. If he's happy, that's fine but I'll remain skeptical of the HF being "better" than the Forrest as a general precept--I'm convinced something correctable gave him the result he got (possibly the tightened sphincter muscles after having laid out the cash had something to do with it -- and if he's happy w/ the HF he might as well get something he'll feel better about spending the $$ on).

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