Cedar Siding/ Slightly OT

We've made the decision to apply cedar siding this summer. Here are the steps I have decided on. If anyone has additions to make or correct the ones I adopted, please post them..
1. Use Western Red Cedar from Minnesota. 2. Size: 5/4, Beveled, Rabbeted, 8" or maybe 6". 8" is $1.78 per Sq. Ft. 6" is $1.65 per Sq. Ft. 3. Remove 12" Masonite 4. Use house wrap. 5. Caulk all edges of siding and joints. 6. 45 all butt joints 7. Use Aluminum nails 8. Put two coats of sanding sealer on inside of siding. 9. Put two coats of Penofin on exterior of siding. 10. Add 10% for waste.
Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Have you thought about how you want to treat the corners? Most houses around me have vertical trim boards installed in the corners. On my house the siding went on first and the trim was nailed on top of the siding. Looks like crap IMO and the gaps are a haven for the spiders. When it comes time for me to reside I'll have the trim put on first and the siding boards butted against it.
Art

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...did an install of bevel-cut Cedar years ago where we cut all the corners at 45 degrees (not so hard to do if you use a radial arm saw and use scraps of the same material, reversed, under the cut piece...), it looked awesome! One problema was our builder's level was a little off so when we reached the last run we were off a couple of inches...lucky it was the side of the house opposite the closest neighbors, and there was a door down toward the end...we made the meld above the door and tip-toed away! Man, that place looked great...then the painters came, sigh.
Charlie Groh

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YEs, put all the trim on first...windows, doors, everything, and butt up to it. Caulk as you install, so you get a full seam of caulk...clear silicone.
I made my siding from poplar and a little pine, then dipped it in stain using a tank. It's thicker than the store stuff, so I had to trim with 2X material...treated 2X4. It's worked out well, but the sunny places need recoating...4 yrs.
Wilson

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This is good advice...

.. but this is not.
First off, paint doesn't adhere too well to silicone caulk. Latex caulk is a better idea.
Second, an even better idea is to make your joints fit tightly enough that they don't *need* caulk. This is really easy to do. Make all your joints square-cut butt joints, and cut the last board in each course about 1/32" too long. Bow that board in the center, and put the ends in place. Then push the board flat against the sheathing: presto! A joint that fits so tightly you couldn't get caulk into it if you tried.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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Thanks to everyone for the help. I did forget to mention the trim. The siding is 5/4 at bottom edge, so wouldn't I have to use 5/4 by 4" trim ? I definitely am going to put trim on first. I need to use caulking that won't show thru the Penofin. My wife wants a dark caulking. Am looking at caulking gun run off air compressor. This is a big house, plus three car garage. Gonna take almost 4000 sq. ft. of siding. So I figure at least 7 gallons of caulking. I want to run a bead between each joint and along each horizontal edge. I'm planning on moving my SCMS outside and set up on sawhorses. I have an old Dewalt RAS but still need to order belt. My main worry is the woodpeckers here. A guy that lives in town didn't seal back of his siding and insects got into it and then came the woodpeckers. Wasn't much left of the siding.
Doug Miller wrote:

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I was told to never use caulk on the horizontal joints of siding. If you seal that joint then it will trap any moisture that manages to get in behind the siding and accelerate rot. This may not be true in your location, but a quick check with a pro could save you a big headache later on.
Art

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Wellll, I don't know what Penofin is. Is it paint or stain? Where I live, you can't get a CO until siding is caulked! There may well be good Latex caulk. If so, fine, of course. I did the bowing on what I put up, but you can't get a commercial crew to do that, in my experience (which is not extensive). Trim? If you have 5/4 siding with another course below, then 5/4 trim won't work. I think the trim should be 1/4" or more proud of the siding. I actually started with about 5/4, then resawed to get the siding. It's still much thicker than the sorry stuff at the stores.
Considering the work involved, HardeePlank is looking good to me! We cut, dried, dipped, racked, and dried 500 pieces up to 16 ft long. Quite a job. Wilson
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Just a thought but you should use stainless nails rather than aluminum. Aluminum oxidizes white and corrodes faster. SH

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Wow, this thing may go on forever. I used SS nails and don't like them. They are shiny and out of character and show when alignment was not perfect. If you can get something similsr to the finished color, it would be nice. Of course if you are filling over them it won't matter and SS will be great. Wilson

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Cody Hart wrote:

I'm doing the same thing on a detached garage/workshop up here in Minneapolis (I worked on trim this afternoon, in fact). One thing I'm doing is tacking 3/8" thick lath vertically to the studs (by nailing through the sheathing), and then nailing the cedar siding to the lath. This provides an air gap between the siding and the Tywrap below, so any moisture that *does* creep in behind the siding will stay off the sheathing and eventually circulate out.
I don't know if this is standard practice, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm finding it -does- complicate things a bit, since the trim also needs to be nailed to 3/8" lath, and you need to take this into account at the corners of the building if you miter trim boards together -- everything's offset proud by 3/8", so horizontal trim needs to be that much longer. On the other hand, I'm shooting for 100-year+ construction, so it may be overkill in your case. We've got a 100-year-old Arts & Crafts foursquare, and we're building the garage to match. I figure the house is good for another 100 years at least, so the garage may as well last that long too. I put a basement below the garage to serve as my workshop; someday I'll finish the garage and landscaping so I can start working on the workshop itself :-)
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a couple of points which i hope will help.
if you are using 5/4 siding, the trim will either want to be thicker (remember the bottom of one lap sets on top of the thinner edge of the course below it) or put it on top of some sort of backer (we used strips of 1/4" exterior grade plywood on a number of occasions) to give the trim board the visual heft you want. you can also rabbit the trim to allow the siding to slide behind it if your want, although that is more commonly used on t&g siding since it is a consistent thickness.
use ring-shank nails in the color you will be putting on the siding, i don't know what color "penofin" is, but my guess is you can get exterior quality aluminum ring shanked nails in whatever color that is (or pretty close anyway). depending on what the substrate is, get nails long enough to get a good hold on solid wood of some kind. if you put a foam backer of any kind (good idea imo) make sure your nails are long enough to get through it. also if you do use a foam backer, tape the seams before you wrap it...
no matter what nails you use, don't drive them home, it will tear the fibers and allow moisture to wick through the wood. even in "weather resistant" wood (redwood, cedar, et al.) moisture in the fibres will cause it to fail before its time. if you finish with the nailhead flush with the surface of the siding, the fibers will stretch and not tear.
caulk along the edges of the siding (at each trim board), but not at the bottom of each piece(on the horizontal seam). over time, water will work it's way under a lap of siding, i was taught never to stand in the way of the water getting out.
do not caulk on the mitre joints in the middle of the wall, instead cut a 8 inch tall piece of felt paper (tar paper) about 6 inches wide and attach it to the substrate so that it is centered under the seam and overlaps the lower course by at least 4 inches (which should be about 1-2 inches above the bottom edge of the course of siding you are currently working on). this will allow any water which gets through the bevel to run out from under the siding. do not put any nails through the tar paper where it is over the lower course of siding to avoid water seeping through the nail holes.
be careful of using the "bowing" technique another responder mentioned on a course too close to a mitre joint as it can push out the bevel and create a shadow line. if you are careful, it does work and it's amazing to me how much "extra" length a course can accommodate and still lay flat.
also a speed square as a guide and a circular saw can get a reasonable 45 if you always apply the speed square to the face of the siding. since the thickness of the siding changes as you move across the profile, a piece cut with the square on the backside will not be straight on the face. since you mentioned a scms, you'll want to be sure and follow the advice from the other respondent and place a scrap piece facing the opposite direction on the table to make the cut parallel to the table top.
a good quality latex painters caulk is both paintable and will maintain a degree of flex for many years. they are also available in tints to match the color of the wood (cedar was a color we commonly used). we always used the stuff in tubes, no ideas about getting it for a powerized gun...
hope there's something you find useful, seth

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Put Penofin on all six sides, why treat the interior differently. To only stain the exterior surface is looking for a problem. Backside protection is mandatory.
Use metal flashing where appropriate around blocking for exterior lights, perhaps above windows (if needed) and doors.
RB
Cody Hart wrote:

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