Spotlight advice (HTML post)

[Reckless]

Just come back from France where I had 'fun' running some new wiring into the kitchen (masses of cables as French wiring code doesn't allow for a UK style ring and requires separate feeds for certain appliances... but hey that's another story!). They want to have a fairly modern kitchen and for lighting they were looking at halogen spotlights.

Their kitchen has two fairly small (1.25x1m) windows and is approx 4.5m square. Anyone got any recommendations for the configuration of spotlights? I thought perhaps two rows of 5 about 30cm back from the worktop height. Here's a [really bad] diagram showing the room layout. I've marked the line of spots on it using the '*'. c for cabinets and w for the windows.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Please turn off the HTML.

When standing at every worktop, you will be working in your own shadow. The floor behind you will be rather well lit though. If you paint the floor, ceiling, and walls brilliant white, some light will make it round in front of you to the worktop after bouncing off 4 or more surfaces.

Seriously, spotlamps are not suitable for general purpose lighting. You haven't given enough information about the room to make any firm suggestions. However, in a kitchen, you generally need good lighting around the edge of the room, and you want diffuse lighting source(s) to avoid shadows. You can use reflection off a white ceiling as a good diffuse lighting source, which could be created from wall mounted uplighters over the worktops. If you have wall mounted cupboards above your worktops, under cupboard lighting works very well, and over cupboard lighting reflecting off the ceiling can supply the general lighting. A few low powered spotlamps can be used to accent features in the room if you like, but should not be providing the bulk of the light.

[Rob Nicholson]

Their kitchen has two fairly small (1.25x1m) windows and is approx 4.5m square. Anyone got any recommendations for the configuration of spotlights? I thought perhaps two rows of 5 about 30cm back from the worktop height. Here's a [really bad] diagram showing the room layout. I've marked the line of spots on it using the '*'. c for cabinets and w for the windows.

[:::Jerry::::]

Tosser....

Either post in plain text or not at all moron.

[Rob Morley]

kitchen (masses of cables as French wiring code doesn't allow for a UK style ring and requires separate feeds for certain appliances... but hey that's another story!). They want to have a fairly modern kitchen and for lighting they were looking at halogen spotlights.

Anyone got any recommendations for the configuration of spotlights? I thought perhaps two rows of 5 about 30cm back from the worktop height. Here's a [really bad] diagram showing the room layout. I've marked the line of spots on it using the '*'. c for cabinets and w for the windows.

Don't post HTML - lots of people won't be able to see it. Post a link to a web page instead.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Well you obviously did - as did I. Most ISPs will convert small HTML files to text. Or simply delete them.

[:::Jerry::::]

Were does the ISP come in Dave, true many news servers will delete anything other than plain text but those that don't and were the news-reader isn't equipped to read multipart messages will just display the source code - but the real issues is message size and what might be contained within the message, it's quite possible to have an 'onLoad' event in the message and for those that haven't got their security correct....

[Rob Nicholson]

Whilst I'm fully aware of why this statement may be applicable (ettiquite and all that), I can never quite understand why HTML is just *so* bad :-) After all, we all use it all the time for browsing. After all, it's not like it's a hugely bloated specification that adds gigibytes to all our news downloads.

Personally, I'd like to see a few *bolds* around the place.

Cheers, Rob.

[:::Jerry::::]

(ettiquite

Besides possible security risks the NNTP protocol is a text based one, you might well like some *bold* text whilst reading messages via Outlook Express but those who are using newsreaders built to the NNTP spec' will just see a load of source code such as the following;

Just come back from France where I had = 'fun'=20 running some new wiring into the kitchen (masses of cables as French = wiring code=20 doesn't allow for a UK style ring and requires separate feeds for = certain=20 appliances... but hey that's another story!). They want to have a fairly = modern=20 kitchen and for lighting they were looking at halogen = spotlights.   Their kitchen has two fairly small = (1.25x1m)=20 windows and is approx 4.5m square. Anyone got any recommendations for = the=20 configuration of spotlights? I thought perhaps two rows of 5 about

30cm = back=20 from the worktop height. Here's a [really bad] diagram showing the room = layout.=20 I've marked the line of spots on it using the '*'. c for cabinets = and w for=20 the windows.    --w--------

|   *   *   = | |c  *   *  =20 w

|c  *   *  c| |ccc*   *  c|  -----------   Any advice greatfully=20 received!

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C54867.3E3A59D0--

[Owain]

If you use Thunderbird, it turns *bold* into, well, bold. __ and // also work for underscore and italics.

It also makes nice smileys

Owain

[Martin Angove]

As already stated, sending as HTML only will make messages very difficult to read for those of us who choose to work in text only. A typical HTML formatted message is maybe 50% larger than plain text.

Sending as plain text + HTML makes the message 150% larger than it need be.

HTML can reference external entities (graphics, applets etc) which can make the total download bigger still, and *could* be malicious.

Text-only makes newsreading a more consistent experience (problems with top/middle/bottom posting excepted) and creates a more equal forum where it is the content of a message which counts for most, not how well it formats on your screen. Yes there are the grammar pedants, but imagine the problems with full HTML formatting; you'd get the design mafia too.

What Owain said Thunderbird does sounds like a good idea. It also sounds like the way word processors used to work before the WYSIWYG revolution (Wordperfect under DOS and View and Wordwise on the BBC Micro spring immediately to mind as those were the ones I used most). Since the earliest days of usenet/email people have been using **, __ and // as emphasis markers.

Hwyl!

M.

[Reckless]

Piss off moron. I put a marker in the subject in advance. I used HTML as I used a monospace font for the 'diagram'. If you can't be bother to understand this then crawl back into your own hole.

[Reckless]

I should have said that they do not want any wall mounted cabinets so there'll be no shadows from those but also no possibility of installing overhead lighting! I don't know what colour they expect to be painting the room but it'd either be white or an off white I'd guess. It's quite a large space and is currently fitted with an awful 1960's design circular flourescant lamp (35W) on one side which illuminates nothing at all and a twin tube flourescant unit which provides a lot of very crude light on the other.

What other info on the room could I give to provide a more accurate assessment? Dimensions, window sizes and positions and a proposed cabinet layout together with a lighting proposal seemed fairly 'complete' to me. I'm back in the UK now so I can't measure stuff but shoot and I'll try to add some info.

I could suggest that they consider fitting the 'rows' of spots just in front the cabinet line. That would at least reduce any shadows from 'behind person' lighting.

Thanks in advance!

[Michael Mcneil]

What was contained within that required HTML?

All he wanted to do was post an ascii text? And that took html?

He's using Bloody Terrible; is that why he had tro use code?

From: "Reckless" Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y Subject: Spotlight advice (HTML post) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:47:21 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 84 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-158-95-83.range81-158.btcentralplus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C54867.3E3A59D0" X-Trace: nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com 1114300041 23683

81.158.95.83 (23 Apr 2005 23:47:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: [e-mail] NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:47:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478

Looking at the text I could have summed up the situation a lot quicker in a few words such as:

Kichen = square of so many feet or metres

Spotlights in ceiling = so and so by so and so.

If Bloody Terrible are so bad (still) why not use Google?

[Andrew McKay]

I just changed from Forte Agent to Thunderbird. Very impressive, I can do RSS feeds, email, and usenet in one user interface without having to switch between different utilities.

To anyone who might not yet have been persuaded, try Thunderbird. It's great!

[:::Jerry::::]

No, you crawl back into your hole and piss off, either post in plain text or bugger off to a web forum, the fact that you waste MY bandwidth with your HTML posting IS my concern and if you wish to keep you ISP / NNTP account you better take note of what I and other people have told you...

Piss off ignoranus moronic wanker and don't frigging top post either.

[Rob Morley]

My newsreader strips out HTML, so I didn't see whatever it was that he needed HTML for. Apart from the bandwidth and security implications of HTML on Usenet, it goes against basic standards - all posts should be displayable on a terminal or teletype, that is 80 columns and fixed-width font. Just because most modern computers have a WIMP GUI doesn't mean that you have to use every available feature in every application - often whistles and bells can do more to break accessibility and interoperability than they do to enhance them. HTML isn't a good solution for anything that depends on layout and formatting anyway - much better to use PDF or GIF. Or ASCII art ...

[Rob Morley]

Usenet is a plain-text medium - 80 columns monospaced is the standard display anyway. How do you think people normally do ASCII art?