Shouldn't say this but ...

[Mary Fisher]

... a neighbour has, this weekend, fitted a non condensing boiler.

He was able to do this because he got it mail order from Scotland, where the law isn't the same as ours.

Mary

[Owain]

Doesn't matter whether he bought it from Scotland or Vladivostock. If he's fitted it in England, he's subject to English Building Regs.

Owain

[Andy Cap]

Good for him. At least he wasn't suckered into buying something unecessarily complicated and liable to have a shorter than reasonable life. What is saved in enery is more than consumed in servicing and earlier replacement costs. Still it keeps the heating engineers in employment I guess but not at his expense.

Andy

[John Stumbles]

Rubbish: he was able to do it because he's flaunting the law (as embodied in the building regs) and probbaly getting it done by a cowboy (or himself, which may be the same thing).

[Andy Hall]

Plus the source of supply (i.e. which part of the country) is irrelevant

[Bob Eager]

It's just possible (though doubtful) that his house falls into one of the exemptions, but he had trouble sourcing a boiler locally.

[Dave]

Not as doubtful (regarding exemption, not local supply) as you may imagine. We live in a 3-bed semi dormer bungalow (built in 1965) with a back boiler in the fireplace of the living room. We actually qualify as an exemption but we didn't want an inefficient back boiler in the same place, so went out of our way to accommodate a more modern and certainly more efficient condensing combi.

Too tired/drunk to go into detail but we really had to struggle to upgrade. Point is though, we live in a cul-de-sac of 18 houses, all designed the same, on an estate of, maybe, 200 houses all designed the same, so all eligible for exemption.

Dave

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There are plenty countries that sell drugs by mail order which are classified in the UK. Does that mean it's ok to use them?

[John Rumm]

While what you say may have been true for some of the very early condensing boilers, it does not hold true these days (at least if you buy a reasonable one).

Still, its his money, and if he wants to waste it....

[John Rumm]

You can buy non condensers here easily enough... there are some cases where it is still legal to install them.

[Chris J Dixon]

Are you claiming that servicing is not costly? My old boiler lasted over 20 years requiring nothing that was beyond my abilities. Can't touch the new one.

Chris

[Andy Cap]

A guy wrote here just a few months back, that his boiler was playing up but it was 8 years old and so probably due for replaecment. That is the mindset the regulations and industry have deliberately created, rather than extolling the virtues of longevity, because like any product, they prefer high trunover despite the smokescreen of being conservationists. There is no reason, why a simple boiler shouldn't last in excess of 30 years and more and with only minimal servicing.

Andy

[dennis]

My 29 year old, then state of the art, low water content boiler is still going. I have saved far more gas by having stats and zone valves on the system than I could have by fitting a condensing boiler with crappy TRVs. Maybe they should have regulated to fit a proper control system first? Corgi wouldn't want that of course as most of their members wouldn't be able to fit a system with proper controls. And there is the point.. a trade association getting rules changed to suit their members and not to suit the real issues.. what a surprise. Now you have to ask are the government so dumb they believe what they are told or are they corrupt? Either way its time they went as they can't be trusted.

[auctions]

Unless he qualifies for an exemption, a Corgi fitter shouldn't fit it. It's possible it was fitted by himself or an unregistered fitter, which may increase the possibility that a dangerous fault could arise, and some such faults could affect neighbours...

Might be worth checking the installation has been properly registered on the appropriate website.

A

[John Rumm]

Servicing ought to cost no more than for a non condensing boiler really

- the only extra step is to check the condensate trap is not blocked.

However don't fall into the trap of comparing a modern condensing boiler with a 30 year old iron lump and saying "its more complex and needs more servicing". The same is true for any modern boiler with fanned flue, electronic ignition etc whether it is a condenser or not.

[unopened]

I think you mean flouting.

Not all laws are held in equal regard. Some argue that certain laws should never have been given royal assent - for example, the Dangerous Dogs Act, or any law brought in by a statutory instrument (delegated legislation) that removes the possibility of proper parliamentary scrutiny before its provisions take effect, which bring in laws by fiat of the Home Secretary (to cite one possibility).

Cheers,

Sid

[John Rumm]

Nothing to stop you having stats and zone valves on a more efficient boiler either though is there?

They are (of sorts) - see part L1 and the domestic heating guide it referrers to. Zoning becomes mandatory over a certain floor area (although in many properties it makes sense well below the 150m^2 stipulated). Fully pumped operation with an interlock is also required.

Don't seem to stop them selling them to the customer though does it!

Don't think that is an either / or question - self evidently both.

I will vote for that!

[John Rumm]

I would not lump "himself" in with "an unregistered fitter". All the really dodgy gas work I have seen has so far been done by "professional" fitters rather than home owners. Most home owners usually have enough sense of self preservation to leave alone if truly without a clue.

Such as?

[dennis]

No but its priorities. Not using the heating when you don't need to is likely to save more energy than condensing a bit of water in the flu gas. I think my boiler is rated at something like 84% efficient and a condensing boiler is about 4% more IIRC (does that include the fan as I don't have one?). If I had a condensing boiler I would probably fit the controls still so in theory it might save a few percent but at the cost of bigger rads, etc. so over the life of the system it may not save anything even with the same controls just because it takes more energy to make, ship, install, paint, etc. the bigger rads, boiler and pipes.

[auctions]

I think Corgi's current policy is to require a building regs notice on each installation. Many councils now allow you to check building regs applications online, so you could see if one has been done.

A