Shedload of problems?

[Bill]

We have a garage full of junk and a large shed full of tools that I can't get to because of the junk. When I came to use my router to attack the piece of wood to make a mantelpiece, I discovered that the collets and the bit had rusted together, so the first fine day for ages was spent freeing off and re-assembling.

I have been saying for ages that we need a separate shed for the garden tools that are put in after a bit of a dig or mow or whatever and then raise the shed humidity well past the tool-rusting threshold. Besides, they have to be climbed over or fall on me all the time. As I've been seen to be making a decorative housey thing, the argument seems to be producing results.

The big wooden shed is fine, but it is now on its third roof felt, and we all are getting older, so I've been looking at metal and plastic clip the bits together things.

I'm told by a steel shed owner that it hasn't rusted as he expected, and I've also been looking at 'resin' sheds as sold by B&Q etc. The relevant one in stock locally is assembled on a rack about 15 feet above ground and can't be inspected closely, but has a piece broken off the door. How B&Q thinks this is a great sales ploy beats me.

I was really hoping to level the ground, spread a small bed of tiny pebbles and then plonk the shed floor on that, clip it together and expect it to last about 20 or so years. It would be in a fairly sheltered spot and I can make plywood anchors if necessary.

Is this sensible? Does anyone have any experience of resin sheds? Do they fade and go brittle in light like so many plastics? Do they bend? Can they be repaired with fibreglass or epoxy resin?

Can anyone help with advice?

[Woland]

I had a couple of rotten sheds that I replaced with a much bigger summer house last year (work still in progress as you can see from some of my recent posts).

I specifically addressed the issue of the summer house base (let's call it big shed as the structure is the same), both looking at what happened to my rotten sheds , to neighbours' sheds and to the extensive and disparate comments/literature you find online.

Metal: depending where you live, unless it's properly insulated you can have problems of internal water vapour condensation in the cold season, as metal ends up being colder than the surrounding environment. You could end up having an oven in the warm season (even if it doesn't look very warm outside) because of solar radiation being nicely absorbed by the metal.

Plastic: UV tends to degrade many plastic materials with time so I wouldn't put a bet on it lasting 20 years... unless it's explicitly certified to be UV-resistant.

Wood seems to be the longest latsting option unless water gets its way over, under, around... So that's the material I chose in the end (also because it's the one you can more easily modify).

The outcome of all this ruminating on personal and other people's observations is that putting the joists (even if pressure treated) directly on the soil ( levelled, graveleld, etc it's still soil) is pretty bad. What is always recommended is something along

- level the ground

-put damp proof barrier (thick black polyethylene sheed) on ground (or below if you lay cement)

-put slabs on barrier

-now you can put joists on, although I would further recommend you lay joists on bricks to make sure joists are not directly touching the slabs and getting any stagnating water for long time

Now your shed floor would be seriously safe...

Good luck

[The Medway Handyman]

Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow under the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.

[Billaboard]

On the boat, the epoxy coat deteriorated where covered with varnish, but where covered with paint it has been fine. Not sure if "resin" of shed fame behaves in the same way. Perhaps I could paint it if it looked dodgy after a year or so?

Wood wouuld be ideal, but I have had problems with the deterioration of the felt roof, even though we used good felt. The big wooden shed here is laid on a concrete base with a plastic membrane, then expanded polystyrene (?) sheet, then a ply floor. Then old carpet. This has been fine and warm. But that is a working rather than storage shed.

My reason for looking at the "resin" shed was that I hoped the supplied ventilated plastic floor would remove the need for damp proof membreanes etc. The shed is only for garden tools, power washer etc, and won't have any need for power or anything. Drainage is OK, and we don't have standing water or anything.

In my last house the shed was on bricks with an air space below. We had some problems with cats and other animals under the shed. They would pull away the wire netting every few weeks.

Thanks for the thoughts

Bill

[Derek]

I did that and they did rot but it was getting on for 20 years.

The fence posts were laid on existing paving slabs (the whole area was paved).

I just wonder if I'd laid the posts on DPC on a layer of slates or roofing tiles to lift them out of any puddles or run off, the shed might have been still with us.

Derek

[The Medway Handyman]

Were they concrete posts?

[Derek]

Oh no, Oh no.

Not at all, at all.

Could be a local thing but most concrete fence posts I've seen seem to be tapered.

Derek

[The Medway Handyman]

Aha, aha. I meant concrete :-)

Strange, I've never seen a tapered concrete post. Where's 'local' to you then?

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Bill writes

I doubt the actual material used in construction will have much impact on rusting of stored metallic items. The problem is most likely condensation from warm, moist air on cold metallic surfaces.

My centre lathe is housed in an unheated farm building and is prone to rust unless kept covered by a simple dust sheet. I think the process is one where a period of low overnight temperature is succeeded by a warm damp morning leading to condensation on cold surfaces. I expect the dust sheet traps a layer of relatively dry air.

Nice ploy on justifying an extra shed:-)

Don't know. Lots of plastic cars about.

regards

[John Rumm]

Whatever the construction, make sure it is well insulated and then you can provide a small amount of heating (don't need to be much, but just enough to keep the tools above the dew point). One solution for smaller tool collections is simply a cupboard with some insulation and a small tube heater or even just a small lightbulb at the base.

[Derek]

A lot of schools had them round their grounds.

It might mean simply that a local a local manufacturer made them like that and a local contractor used them.

Derek

[The Medway Handyman]

Strange place Leeds... Mary lives there...

:-)

Come to think of it I have seen those holding chain link fencing. Must be a school thing.

Anyway I was talking about square fence posts like wot are used to hold up wany lap pamels.

[Clint Sharp]

In message , Bill writes

I've got a Keter 8x6 'resin' shed, it's almost 5 now. It's on a flagstone base with no anchors but there are holes in the floor for you to screw it down if necessary.

It's not discoloured or at least if it has it's done it gracefully and consistently. They do bend if you lean heavy things against the walls but mine has regained its shape almost entirely after I made that mistake. Even when the walls were bent out it didn't leak.

It's been waterproof and needed no running repairs during its life. If you do decide to buy one, find a friend with a Costco card, they're around £250 less than they are in B&Q (last time I saw mine it was the wrong side of £500, I paid less than £300 at my local Costco)

The after sales is excellent, mine came missing a peg, I phoned the support number and one came in the post next day.

Disadvantages are that the shelves have buckled under the excessive weight (my fault, it was too heavy) and it's difficult to fit more because you can't add your own brackets easily. I've got free standing metal shelving in mine.

Unfortunately the smell is also missing, there's something very special about the smell of a proper wooden shed filled with tools and the resin ones just don't have it.

[Billaboard]

This is exactly the sort of info I was after, so thanks for the help.

It looks as though B&Q isn't too uncompetitive at the moment. Cheaper than Argos and I can get the OAP discount. I'll investigate Costco. It's years since I've used them. I've been back to B&Q for another look, but the poor assembly of the small plastic stores and the fact that all the sheds are up in the air, plus the lack of knowledge of the staff don't exactly help.

I'd be planning to put it under some trees, so I think the roots might be a problem. We are on what I believe is a fairly shallow topsoil on sandstone, so the roots are near the surface and do move the flags on the pavement outside.

The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job or just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second pair of hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

Thanks again.

[The Medway Handyman]

I assembled one of these a few weeks ago, I think it was this one

Did it by myself in well under 4 hours, including unpacking it. All the parts were marked, instructions very clear, nothing heavy to lift.

[Bob Eager]

We got these:

bought two Jumbos, which are basically a bundled XL and an extension. I put one up as an XL, and the other as an XL with two extensions.

They've been up about four years now. Only minor problem was that one of the kids managed to shut the doors on one with the bolt already in the 'down' position and mangled both the bolt and its mounting. They come with shelf brackets, etc.

The floors are a plastic lattice, and I boarded over them to give more localised strength (there is shelving in the big one, on feet).

[Billaboard]

That's encouraging, as the one I was thinking of was one size down. I downloaded the pdf's from the site, and it says 2 people for the roof, and the pic shows one inside and one outside.

I'm a bit old and decrepit to be in 2 places at once, or even one place where much work takes place.

Can you confirm the bendiness was OK? The small stores in B&Q from that maker were terrible. I had to bend one to open the door and then the back came loose. I assume that just reflects on the 'craftsman' who put it together.

[The Medway Handyman]

It said that in the instructions for the one I did, but it was easy enough by myself - although I'm used to working alone. The roof panels don't weigh a lot. It would be easier with two people though.

Its one of those things that are bendy until the whole thing is assembled, then it all locks together. I was most impressed with how rigid it was. Very well designed & thought out.

The two part floor was joined with self tapping screws and the roof was held to the sides with them as well. I used a drill driver. The side were held to the base with large plastic 'bolts'. I used Mole grips to get them really tight.

If I needed a shed I would probably buy one of these. Can't say more than that really.

[terry]

Here with a climate somewhat similar to say Northern Scotland, we have never built a shed (or cabin) 'on the ground'. Always on posts etc. with an air space below. Vapour barrier in floor and the shed properly ventilated. Presently proposing that since someone is going to give us a 12 by 20 foot shed (plus old lumber collected) we will build a new one in our backyard hopefully, by remaking the trusses, as a 14 by 20. And yes it will be at least one foot above the ground at one end due to ground slope and almost on the ground with an air space at the other. The only 'problem' with that is that to get a fairly heavy item such as a snow-blower into the shed a small ramp is necessary. However this one may be big enough to take car, so a fairly strong ramp will be required.