Power factor

Probably not.

TBH, I don't really have any stats for the frequency of usenet postings that concern this or any other topic really (and these days I am not sure google is up to the job of finding out either!). Hence I tend to write stuff that is triggered by a posting, and where I have memory of it being covered a few times in the past.

For the wiki itself and the FAQ, I have a bit more visibility. I can get search string lists for the search capability on the main FAQ page. For example the top hits this month are:

2 expansion 2 fit door seal 2 insufficient system pressure 2 motor in washing machine 2 noise from radiators when turned on 2 oil boilers 2 pilot light goes out during the day 2 pilot light on but does not firer up 2 planer and jointer 2 plumbing 2 power showers 2 pressostat 2 radiator valves 2 roofing 2 roofing 2 selector switch 2 setting timer on combi boiler 2 soldering aluminium 2 sunvic mp2 2 thermostatic 2 using taper edged plasterboard 1 3 bar pressure releasevalve 1 3 bar pressure valve 1 3 port mid position spring return valve 1 3 port motorisedvalves 1 40 amp 1 40 amp mcb 1 40 amp rcbo 1 acorn 1 b40 1 balancing 1 banging 1 banging when spinning 1 belt has come off the drum

Which are probably quite predictable. However if you look at the most popular wiki pages:

# Main Page (70,827 views) # Cables (55,789 views) # House Wiring for Beginners (47,006 views) # Roof construction (46,975 views) # Central Heating Design (33,256 views) # Make Things from PVC Pipe (24,750 views) # Fluorescent Lighting (23,164 views) # Domestic Hot Water Systems (22,153 views) # RCD (19,323 views) # Motorised Valves (18,482 views) # Taking electricity outside (18,406 views) # Central Heating Repair (18,210 views) # Central Heating Controls and Zoning (17,926 views) # Rewiring Tips (14,945 views) # Halogen Lighting (14,724 views) # Silicone Sealant (14,447 views) # Partition Wall (13,897 views) # Terminating SWA (13,574 views) # Current events (12,933 views) # Sheet Materials (11,737 views) # Insulation (11,201 views) # Wiring colour codes (11,059 views) # Strengthen a Wood Floor (10,609 views) # Changing a consumer unit (10,492 views) # Limescale (9,639 views)

Some are predictable (and remember now that searches of the main FAQ also find wiki content as well now since I started cross linking them), but there are a few in there that I would never have predicted!

Some like the roof construction one, was just a "throw away" I started for answering one question, and it was an interesting thing to draw in sketchup. I never anticipated it being the third most viewed article! I am constantly surprised that so many people want to make stuff from PVC pipe as well.

Reply to
John Rumm
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Yes, but I'll do a bit more work on it first - want to get the SMPSU bit in too. (Also noticed an inaccuracy in power factor calculation in that version.)

I'm not really a java programmer at all (as anyone who looked at the source would confirm;-) I'm more of a unix kernel and networking apps and real-time programmer.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

That reminds me of the cartoon version showing a button with illuminated display saying "Press to activate", on being pressed it changes to "Release to detonate".

Reply to
Mike Clarke

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Thanks for that John - I must go and look at the PVC pipe one,as I

*do* have a requirement there !!!

I think AG put me right as to why everyone has a sudden interest in PF.

Rob

Reply to
robgraham

It's a very long time since I studied this but I don't recall any way PF can be less than 1 unless there is a phase shift. In the example you give you would just get a lower RMS current than a straight sinewave so the input VA would be lower and the PF = 1. Can you explain why I am wrong?

Reply to
Mark

Part of the answer comes from the way such PF issues are named: "Harmonic PF". A pulse waveform such as the current draw on a SMPS no longer has a single fundamental frequency like a traditional current waveform. In fact it is closer in approximation to a square wave, which will have frequency components of not only its fundamental frequency but also the sum of an infinite number of odd harmonics.

If you were to perform a fourier analysis of the current waveform you could see its now dispersed in the frequency domain. Imagine now redrawing your current waveform as a group of perfect sine waves representing the main peaks shown in your frequency domain analysis. You have an additional group of RMS currents (at frequencies higher than that of the supply) to factor into your calculation of PF. This if you like is a "distortion" power factor.

So in addition to controlling phase lag/lead induced PFs there is also a need to control the total harmonic distortion - since this can have a number of unwanted effect on the power transmission system as well. Hence the input filters on many SMPS to limit the amount of harmonic noise that can find its way back into the mains.

Reply to
John Rumm

Thanks. A very clear explanation :-)

Reply to
Mark

I learnt about power factor back in the early 60s and I too do not remember anything other than phase shift. Memory fades of course but the goal posts may have moved since if switched mode power supplies either weren't around then or hadn't established sufficient presence to matter.

I don't recall anything about the 'useless' power just being temporarily stored and then returned every cycle either which again could just be loss of memory but it leaves the nagging question which someone might care to answer - If the useless power is returned in full why is it that commercial users get charged for kva?

Reply to
Roger Chapman

Yes, SMPS weren't exactly ten a penny when I studied Electrical Engineering!

This link gives a fairly comprehensive explanation in pretty much straightforward language

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also be worth adding to the wiki.

Reply to
The Wanderer

Indeed - while the possibility of a low PF due to harmonic noise was always possible, it was of far less practical significance than today.

It may be useless, but it does represent real current. So with a unity PF, if you want 3kW @ 230V your supply needs to be able to deliver 13A. If you have a PF of 0.6, then your supply needs to cope with a load of

3000/0.6 = 5000 VA and that is nearly 22A.

Hence poor PFs require larger cable sizes, more generation capacity etc to supply the extra current. More current also means more resistive losses.

The current being drawn out of alignment with the voltage waveform means that you tend to distort the mains supply waveform itself. This in turn adds to the harmonic noise in the supply which also lowers transmission efficiency.

So its interests of the supply that users have a high PF. So they make it of financial relevance to their customers as well!

Reply to
John Rumm

OK, I put together some demos so you can try this for yourself, and save me trying to explain it only in words...

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happens in the case of a SMPSU (the last demo) is that the energy draw is concentrated into some small areas, which requires large current peaks. The RMS value of the current actually _increases_, and it's this that represents heating effects in wiring, size of supply transformers, etc. This is why the power factor drops.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Isn't there an error in this article? Surely if peak power (in the example) is 2W the average power is not 1W?

Reply to
Mark

It is correct. The average of that line will be a horizontal line at 1W.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

With a sinusoidal waveform the average is not 1/2 the peak. It's

1/sqrt(2) of the peak.
Reply to
Mark

I assume we are talking about figure 1 here?

0.707 x peak would be the RMS value of a waveform centred around zero. In this case we have a symmetric waveform with lower peak at 0 and upper at 2. Therefore the straight average must lie midway between those values.
Reply to
John Rumm

The average of a half cycle.

But what you have in the diagram is a regular wave form with a maximum of 2W and a minimum of 0W. The average has to be halfway between.

Reply to
Roger Chapman

Actually, the average of a sinusoidal waveform is where it's centred, normally 0, but in this case 1.

1/sqrt(2) of the peak is the RMS value, not the average.

Have a play with the dynamic graphs I put up on

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you change the phase angle, you will see the same graph morph into the version that passes excess energy back and forth between the load and the supply, and you'll see the current waveform grow as a result of the increasing excess (reactive) energy being passed.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

I was having a bad brain day yesterday. The RMS voltage or current is

1/sqrt(2) of the maximum. The power is 1/2 as in the article.
Reply to
Mark

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