Oil Burner Safety Controls TF 830.3 & TF 832.3

[MM]

According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for

1- or 2-stage oil power burners. is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

[harry]

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off. A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

[MM]

burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/TF%20830.3,832.3%20%28EN%29.pdf>>>> What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Okay, thanks.

MM

[MM]

burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/TF%20830.3,832.3%20%28EN%29.pdf>>>> What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Further question: Is it permissible to fit the control box TF 823.3 (for 2-stage burners) into a system that has a 1-stage burner?

My system originally had a DKO970 control box (i.e. NOT a DKO972), therefore the Wallstar 15.20 must be a 1-stage burner system.

Thanks.

MM

[MM]

burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/TF%20830.3,832.3%20%28EN%29.pdf>>>> What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Yet another question, sorry:

What is "post-ignition time"?

From the spec sheet: The TF 830.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 20 sec. The TF 832.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 2 - 3 sec.

My 1-stage burner now has the TF 832.3 control box, which is for

2-stage operation, so I'm wondering how the post-ignition time may affect the propensity for lockouts.

MM

[harry]

Ist question-dunno. I'd have thought not and the two stage controller would be significantly more expensive. You need a special two stage thermostat (or two thermostats) for the two stage burner. One is on off. The other is the changeover temp hi-lo

The post ignition time is the time the flame has to run/get established after ignition during which the PV cell has to "see" it. If it doesn't "see" it in that time, lockout occurs.

The two stage burners start on low fire and move immediately to high fire if the water temperature is low enough. As set point is approached it goes to low fire, & then cycles hi-lo-hi- lo, if temperature continues to rise, it shuts down

The time time differences are due to two stage burners being larger than single stage so the flame takes longer to stabilise.

20 seconds seems longer than I remember. More like 10 on a medium sized oil burner. 2-3 is about what I remember on small burners. But it was all a while back, stuff may have changed.

[Tim+]

It seems no one's answered this (and nor can I) but it seems plausible to me that if you've got the wrong control box (which locks out after a much shorter time if the flame doesn't establish) then it could well be the cause of your problems.

I'd be asking the plumber *why* he fitted a two stage control box to a one stage boiler (and asking him to rectify the mistake).

Tim

[MM]

I did query it. I specifically downloaded the spec sheets for the original DKO970 and for the (now fitted) TF 832.3 and showed them to the heating engineer. I brought up the subject again in emails and phone calls. I repeatedly asked the engineer to check with HRM Wallstar and they were adamant that this new control box IS compatible with the 15/20 model.

The one *obvious* difference is that the DKO970 Model 21 is for a

1-stage oil burner, whereas the TF 832.3 control box is for a 2-stage oil burner.

However, I still have my doubts about the new control box, and my most recent, lengthy posting this morning (see "Curious behaviour of my Wallstar boiler") only confirms them.

I still have the "old" control box and the next time the engineer calls I'm going to ask him to put it back on at least for a temporary test period (say, two to three days).

But, Tim, please feel free to review my latest posting as mentioned, and the weird symptom of the boiler ONLY locking out after the FIRST start-up from cold, because my heating engineer has contacted HRM Wallstar several times (he knows them personally) and even HRM don't seem to have a solution (which doesn't bode well for the company's reputation, in my view).

The boiler is STILL running fine this morning, 24 hours after yesterday's initial lockout at 07:55am. However, it is running in permanently ON mode, and is therefore never having to start from stone cold.

And many thanks, by the way, for your continued interest in my heating problems! It's good to know that some people do read these postings seriously. And maybe this entire litany of woe since October may eventually help others in future to diagnose their boiler probs.

Mind you, my engineer tells me stories of old folks being ripped off by Johnny-come-latelys who just refuse to repair their boilers and say they need a new one. £3,000 ka-ching. I've had confirmation from elsewhere that this sharp practice does go on. My engineer is not expensive and has a good reputation from several other residents with the same boiler (40 brand-new houses in 2003-4).

MM

[Tim+]

Hmm, I can't why the manufacturers would produce two control boxes if one could do the job for both boilers. They must have different lock out times for a good reason.

I saw that. I would imagine that a warm boiler strikes up more quickly than a stone cold boiler which is why it's locking out after the first firing of the day.

Why not phone up HRM and ask them why they produce two different control boxes? It may be that your heating engineer isn't asking the right questions.

Tim

[MM]

There are dozens of control boxes that oil burner manufactuers can choose according to their boiler design. The original DKO970 had a diagnosis feature on the reset button, which produced a sequence of LED flashes to indicate what the fault might be. But, according to my engineer, who was recommended* by Wallstar to fit the 832.3 in place of the DKO970, Wallstar had said that the DKO970's diagnosis sequence was about as useful as a chocolate teapot (I paraphrase) and had stopped fitting it. I believe the control boxes without the fault diagnosis feature are somewhat cheaper.

• He has since double-checked with them and they again confirmed it is compatible. However, I won't hold my breath... *I* am not a heating engineer! I've been told numerous porkies by countless "specialists" over my 40-year working career (now retired, thank God).

NB: They don't produce the control boxes. They buy them in, just as they buy in all the other parts, like the burner, the motor, the pump etc.

I would rather let the heating engineer deal with the company re technical stuff. After all, it's HIS reputation that's on the line here, not just my peace of mind/wallet, and he's pretty cheesed off with HRM by now, I reckon.

However, I still have the "old" DKO970 and when he next calls round I'm going to suggest to him to put it back on for a temporary period to see what happens. You see, it was HRM that recommended he fit a new control box (along with solenoid and photocell). The engineer himself decided later on the new capacitor and since then the reliability HAS improved dramatically. But just not yet 100%

There WILL come a time in 2013 when I shall insert some best quality A4 paper in the printer and send off a detailed letter to Wallstar's CEO with a list of all the replacement parts plus my paper record that I've been keeping.

MM

[neil.tivey]

I know this was an older post, but having had some boiler issues myself I c ame across this post. I also came across the link attached which is a link to a pdf for the DK0970 controller, it clearly describes the function and e xplains the compatibility between the units. The DK controller is a more ex pensive version of the TF830, but they are indeed compatible and exchange-a ble. Thought it was worth adding for others that come across this

Cheers

[Michael Chare]

across this post. I also came across the link attached which is a link to a pdf for the DK0970 controller, it clearly describes the function and explains the compatibility between the units. The DK controller is a more expensive version of the TF830, but they are indeed compatible and exchange-able. Thought it was worth adding for others that come across this

Well my boiler (control box) starts the motor-fan-pump and runs for a few seconds before opening the oil valve solenoid. You could regard that as two stage.

I would only use a control box specified by the burner manufacturer. (But maybe I don't have your problem!)

[geoff]

No that's proving

two stage refers to the valve

The TF830 type controls are mostly pin compatible and the only difference between any of them is timing between stages

I use the same test set for all of them