Making a ruin into something habitable.

Page 4 of 7  

wrote:

When I say "You haven't a clue", it is not a derogatory comment. It is true.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Like proximity to the right school, beach and interesting local shops (guilty on all three counts). Exactly the same house as ours was about 20% cheaper in other areas of the city so we paid the premium for the things we valued. We would have preferred an older, 4 bedroom property further down the hill with some 'character'. But no way could we have stretched to the purchase price at the time, so we make do with smallish 3 bedrooms and concrete sectional garage to enjoy the premiums anyway.
Peter
--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Just as there's another minority for whom the inconveniences of not having such amenities on the doorstep is more than offset by the other benefits of *not* living in towns or cities.
Don't expect Adam to understand that: his ideal for this country is a unform density of new, energy-efficient little boxes ("made of ticky-tacky ...") distributed across a landscape all of which will resemble Milton Keynes :-(

Yep: (entire population - Adam) understands this. 'Nuff said.
Julian
--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

This is a UK perspective, largely due to us building poor quality towers in the 1960's and putting the wrong people (i.e. families with children) in them. Go to Chicago or Melbourne and you will find thousands of people who have chosen to live high rise because of the advantages it offers.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

tb> This is a UK perspective, largely due to us building poor quality tb> towers in the 1960's and putting the wrong people (i.e. families tb> with children) in them. Go to Chicago or Melbourne and you will tb> find thousands of people who have chosen to live high rise tb> because of the advantages it offers. Really? I agree that the image of high rise is different, in the UK it brings up images of piss smelling blocks made with the wrong kind of concrete, whereas in Manhatten the first image might be a high status penthouse.
However, I would think that in any case it is always a compromise. Other than, perhaps, the view I can't think of any advantage to high rise living per-se. People live in luxury penthouse appartments because they can't afford to buy enough land in Manhatten to build a house in landscaped grounds. It is different in price but not in type from the person who lives in a UK council tower block because they can't afford to rent or buy a house in a similar area.
--
Mail me as snipped-for-privacy@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I plan to retire to a 25th floor flat in Melbourne city centre. The huge attraction to me will be having so much within walking distance - owning a car would be pointless. Main railway station and under construction shopping mall across the road, ordinary shops, theatres and other city centre attractions within 10 minutes walk. Tram stop outside front door - 8 per hour - beach 10 minutes away. Countryside - cross the road, get on a train. Because public transport tends to be radial and I'll be at the centre nearly everywhere in the city (and beyond) will be easy to get to. Currently although I only live in Twickenham going up to London proper is a pain (and as last week's meet reminded two of us, going home can be worse).
And once home apart from the view, high security, no maintenance (am I allowed to say that here <g>) and swimming pool (I'll leave the tennis courts and gym for others).
See http://www.centralequity.com.au/ for the sort of thing that has been and is being built - this particular developer is building for the mass market, nothing very special - see http://www.eurekatower.com.au for the Grollo 88 storey block, the tallest residential block in the world, currently under construction. If planning restrictions were to be relaxed then I see no reason why developments of this sort wouldn't spring up all over our big cities.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
tb> I plan to retire to a 25th floor flat in Melbourne city centre. tb> The huge attraction to me will be having so much within walking tb> distance - owning a car would be pointless. Indeed, so it is not the fact that it is high rise which is important. If anything, that is a price you are willing to pay for the access to things, the services provided and so on. That was all I was saying.
--
Mail me as snipped-for-privacy@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Richard Caley

..and it suits their lifestyle at that point in their lives.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Imm wrote:

"urban spawl" another emotive propaganda word. They said that about London in the 1920/30s. These "spawls" had their own facilities within walking distance, so smashes that myth. What you may be on about is close proximity to work. Planning has a lot to do with tarffic coingestion as more mega stores are allowed to be built meaning to get the milk you need car.

Because there is so few of them. High rise, around 60 floors, should be built, as long as they are run and policed properly with high sound insulation. We would need to change laws to evict neighbours from hell far more easily, and laws to ensure they are run and built correctly. There is a need for these block as the population get older and more people living alone. We could learn a lot from the USA and Continental Europe where these types of blocks have all their own amenties inside and strict security.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
a> "urban spawl" another emotive propaganda word. No, it is a word which dates froma time when it was a reasonable argument that the reason cities like London were growing was just pointless sprawl. In such a situation, putting on a limit to persuae peope to redevelop already used land before building on the edge made sense.
Since then the world has changed. The London green belt is now not containing sprawl, but growth. The stupid economic policies of decades of governments have sucked many mroe people into london and the south east, resulting in even more stupid econocmic and so on. This means the pressure jumps the green belt, and we end up with people living near Birmingham and commuting to London every day.
It's politically impossible to reverse the insane economics (removing all subsidy from commuter transport, including road building, removing the london weighting from all public employees etc).
Personally I think the only way forward is to fence off the south east, push it out into the atlantic ans sink it:-).
a> They said that about London in the 1920/30s. These "spawls" had a> their own facilities within walking distance, so smashes that myth. How many theatres, museums, quality restaurants, large libraries specilist food shops, permiership football ground, test cricket grounds, bookshops etc within walking distance of the homes in one of those suburban deserts? More fundamentally, how many jobs?
One (now closed) corner shop, a plastic pub and perhaps an infants school with the option of applying for a job in one of the three really doesn't cut it for civilisation.
People pay a lot of money to live in cities for a reason.
Other people pay a lot of money to live in reasonable comfort out in the boonies or on an island for analogous, but mostly inverse reasons.
Personally I can see fields from here and they aren't interesting enough to be worth living without a connection to a sewer. It is all a matter of taste.
The bit in the middle with none of the benefits of either the open spaces or civilisation is more a matter of distaste.
--
Mail me as snipped-for-privacy@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
abuse-imm (a) writes:

You really have not a clue. Pointless?? Between the wars all towns and cities were full of squalid Victorian slums. There were still there into the 1970s. I clearly remember them. These new homes were giving people a better life rather than in a slum with 3 families sharing one toilet.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
abuse-imm (a) writes:

NO the sane solution demolition and build new well laid out towns, Which happened to a degree to great success.

The slums went!!
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
abuse-imm (a) writes:

Milton Keynes is a great success and came way after Bracknell learnin the mistakes of other new towns.

That is a disgusting derogatory remark aimed the aspiring working classes. Another is condemnation of the Essex man (of working class culture and makes a lot of money), which is pure jealousy.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Both are concrete, soulless places, completely lacking in character.

What working classes? That is an outmoded label in itself which has little meaning any longer.
I didn't say that I necessarily agreed with the comment, but the fact remains that living environments become what people make them. SImply taking people out of a slum environment and dropping them into a socially engineered "utopia" does not necessarily result in an improved situation. That requires the notion of individuals taking responsibility for themselves rather than relying on the nanny state or its local representation to do it for them, and a sense of community and civic pride.

I am not sure that there is such a thing as "working class culture" except in the minds of those wishing to create the notion of one in order to label people. I also fail to see what the geographical origin has to do do with anything, be it estuarine or not.

.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Wrong. Yo know full well that Milton Keynes is about the greemnest city in the world. It has a longer shoreline than Jersey with all its lakes. It certainly is not souless at all. It buzzes.

The working class who were rehoiused from slums and out in nice brand new homes. the middle class were jealous and would make derogatory remarks.

What are the people in sink estates? the aristocracy?

Irrespective what happened, they were a million miles better off than where they came from.

You are saying all the wroking class have no responsibility and no civic pride. That is disgusting.

Well opposed to traditional British deferential middle class. The Essex man abored those creeps and wanted nothging to do with them or their middle class culture. No going to operas for him. Esex man was a free thinker and didn't go along with the middle classies and their petty snobbery.

The working class exist.

Essex man is type of person. Every town and city has him. Of working class background and culture and keeps hold of it, values it, and makes money. Previously when the working class made money they adopted middle class ways. The middles classies hate his guts for not wanting to be creeps like them.
I love Essex man.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

It is clear you have not been there. Concrete is something you see little of.

It is clear you have not been there. Do not comment on what you know "nothing" about. MK is studied by planners from countries from all over the world as an example of how to do it. Camborne in Cambridgeshire is going the same way.

You have lost touch of reality.

You have lost touch of reality.

The amount people rehoused after WW2 that lived in high rise was small.

You clearly implied it.

Whether you like or not, we have a class society, look around. Britain is riddled with it. We also have an aristocracy and a ruling class (how banana republic can you get?)

The government is doing that in teaching at school social responsibility, fining parents of offending children, stamping down on unsocial behaviour, passing stricter laws on fly-tipping and litter bugs, etc. The government has done a good job in this respect, while under the other lot (Thatcher's words) the social fabric near collapsed.

It is very true.

It exists!! get out of cloud cuckoo Little Middle England.

You know nothing of the make up of UK people.

You do? Will they search for Little Middle Englanders too?
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
a> The government is [...] Oh my god! The last Blairite! Slap a preservation order on it quick!
--
Mail me as snipped-for-privacy@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

You are telling porkies! MK does nor consist of concrete. Very green.

To a Sarf Landaner, I suppose it would be.
Have a look at MK.........as you obviously never been there.
- More than 20 per cent of the land area of Milton Keynes is devoted to public open space, including three ancient woodlands and 400 acres of lakes.
- There are 4,000 acres of parks and 20 million trees, including a cathedral of trees based on the layout of Norwich Cathedral.
The Blue Lagoon in the south of the city has at least 28 species of butterfly as well as being the site of rare British Orchids.
- Milton Keynes boasts 15 lakes and 11 miles of canals.
- Milton Keynes has over 180 miles of dedicated bridleways, footpaths and cycletracks.
- Milton Keynes has a specially designed network of landscaped, traffic free paths, called redways and bridleways which enable horse riding enthusiasts, cyclists and ramblers to go from one side of the town to the other without seeing a car.
- All new homes in Milton Keynes are built to energy specifications which are well in excess of national building regulations requirements.
- Approximately 1,600 houses have been built each year in Milton Keynes since 1998 all with an energy efficiency rating of 9 (out of a maximum of 10).
- In October 1999, English Partnerships announced that all new houses built in Milton Keynes must have an energy efficiency rating of 10 out of 10 compared to the national average of 4.3 out of 10.
- Housing is kept away from the road networks to provide a safe, unpolluted environment.
- The country`s first energy park was opened in Milton Keynes in 1986. It was split into two sections: Knowlhill for commercial development and Shenley Lodge for residential.
- The UK`s first active solar house was built in Bradville in Milton Keynes in 1972.
- Milton Keynes Council was the first council to introduce a borough wide kerbside collection recycling scheme - the country`s first purpose designed materials recycling factory is now a regional resource.
- Development is low density with very few buildings topping the height of the trees.
- The National Energy Foundation has its headquarters in Milton Keynes.

I am not dogmatic.

Did this overlap Picaso's blue period.

You did.

Not on your cloud I suppose.

We don't have an aristocracy? We don't have a class system? Get real me boiy.

A Little Middle Englander spouts again.

You have not. You are a Walter Mitty type.

And this one said Milton Keynes was full of concrete.
--
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Andy Hall" wrote | >Milton Keynes is a great success | Both are concrete, soulless places, completely lacking in character.
MK's identibrick housing, rather than concrete.
Owain
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"IMM" wrote | "Owain" wrote | > "Andy Hall" wrote | > | >Milton Keynes is a great success | > | Both are concrete, soulless places, completely lacking in character. | > MK's identibrick housing, rather than concrete. | Obviously never been there.
I have been there, I have visited people in their homes.
| There is a full design mix of homes.
All built in identibrick.
Owain
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.