Making a ruin into something habitable.

Page 2 of 7  
Tony Bryer wrote:

Conversely, if you like peace and quiet and freedom from the IMM's of this world, it costs a very great deal of money to purchase isolation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Ley wrote:

He certainly does.!!!!
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's highly questionable.
However, more to the point, is there any new and enlightening material that you have to post in this thread that has not been posted by you in the many previous runs of this subject?
I haven't seen any yet, it's just the usual trotting out of impractical armchair theories by those who don't have to take responsibility for them.
Why don't you put up a web site with all of this stuff on it, complete with links to other sites on the subject? You could even include Fidel Castro's phone number and Tony Blair's inside leg measurement if you wanted. Presumably you're on intimate terms with both.
You could put in a FAQ to cover all the objections that people raise.
Then whenever you feel an eruption of this magma coming on, you only need to post a URL to your site and you're done - job complete and you've unburdened yourself as well as covering a much larger audience.....
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not really. I tend to take an a la carte view, issue by issue. In my constituency it's largely academic.
Anyway, you haven't answered my question.
Is there anything new that you are saying on this subject that has not been trotted out at least four times before?
It's a simple enough question.......
The suggestion above was an eminently practical one.....
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Andy you are! Now don't fib.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Wrong on both counts.
Now, why can't you answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer, or would that be too much to ask?
Since you are ducking the issue (as is normal when you are put on the spot) one can only draw the conclusion that you don't have anything to say on this subject that you haven't said in at least three previous threads on the subject, and that none of this is your own original thought anyway.
That being the case, having everything posted on a web site somewhere would seem a very practical solution. Then you wouldn't even have to cut and paste from all of the various other sites.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Andy I don't duck issues. The situation has changed little,over 100s of years and little since 1947. The only recent change has made matters worse for us. Johnny Two Jags has said that 3 houses per hectare must be built instead of two. So we are now more into each others faces than before. Again we all, get screwed, and by a Labour government.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have.

I do.

It is clearly desirable to make changes as other countries clearly indicate in their economies, cost of housing, etc.

If the land was stolen then it should be taken back. The current owners are living the life of Reilly on ill gotten gains. Theft is theft.

More like an uphill slope.
No need to take it away. re-distribute land and they have to sell, or introduce LVT.

LVT will improve the economy and not be just moving the furniture around.

You clearly don't understand. LVT fans:
"The vast majority of the British people have no right whatsoever to their native land save to walk the streets or trudge the roads. To them may be fittingly applied the words of a Tribune of the Roman people, Tiberius Gracchus: "Men of Rome you are the lords of the world, yet have no right to a square foot of its soil. the wild beasts have their dens, but the soldiers of Italy have only air and water. - Henry George
"And so the tendency has been to assimilate the idea of property in land with that of property of things of human production, and steps backwards have even hailed as steps in advance". - Henry George
"Men like Henry George are rare, unfortunately. One cannot imagine a more beautiful combination of intellectual keenness, artistic form, and fervent love of justice." - Albert Einstein
"Stop to consider how the so-called owners of the land got hold of it. They simply seized it by force, afterwards hiring lawyers to provide them with title-deeds. In the case of the enclosure of the common lands, which was going on from about 1600 to 1850, the land-grabbers did not even have the excuse of being foreign conquerors; they were quite frankly taking the heritage of their own countrymen, upon no sort of pretext except that they had the power to do so." - George Orwell.
Stop babbling about dismantling the economy for God's sake.

No. The land owners have a very effective propaganda machine in the form of organisations like the Countryside Alliance and some pseudo green movements. The government did not counter this. If it relaxed planning and allowed us not the 92.5% of the land the greenies would should from the high heavens without the government having made any prior counter.

The government did not give any story on land in 1997. They are heavy, by UK standards, on constitutional change, and rightly so. The kicking out of hereditary peers is a great thing and the thin edge of the edge for land reform. We will get there eventually. But in land we need revolution not evolution.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

As in the former USSR, DDR and Cuba? These are all places that have experimented with the type of socio-economic engineering that you are talking about and all have failed. The problem is that ultimately human nature is of animal origin. We are territorial predators separated from the rest of the animal kingdom by a relatively narrow divide.

That depends on whether somebody owned it in the first place. If you want to subscribe to the idea that land acquired centuries ago having been "owned" by the common people is theft then you are at liberty to take that position. Present day law does not support that premise and neither do I.

It is a downhill slope to anarchy because there is no way to define what is "legitimate" and what is not. Do you do it on who the owner is, how much land they own, the value, how long they have owned it, whether they have a title? It's all very arbitrary and where would one draw the line?

That's doing exactly the same thing by stealth.

It has never been done in a macro economy so would be a huge and unjustifiable risk.

All eminent people no doubt. It's easy to pontificate when you don't have responsibility for your actions.

OK, so would you be prepared to put your money where your mouth is?
Let's say that we put you in charge of implementing these reforms that you think are so important. If you can demonstrate an improvement to the economy and the lot of the family on the national average salary in a 5 or 10 year period you receive a large bonus.
OTOH, if the economy or the lot of the average salary family is negatively affected you get nothing and moreover forfeit all of your personal assets.
Would you take the job?

They obviously decided that there was no capital to be made from it and no upsides. That should tell us something.

I think that it's spite and dogma for its own sake.

I think that this last sentence summarises your position completely.
The problem, to quote George Orwell as you have done, is that
"Some animals are more equal than others"
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The law can always be changed.

The anarchy has already occurred in the greed of grabbing common land.

It can be worked out.

Not so. they have to "sell" their land. Note the word "sell". I find it distasteful that the descendants of thieves profit. though.

It is not a risk. LVT is implemented in any places around the world.

Firstly the basic backbone has to be firm and sound. It is.

That would clear happen.

That would not happen.

Yes.
No. they just didn't counter them, as it takes time and effort and money.

And what might that be?

Land large land owners, Oxbridge, Harrow & Eton, etc. Yes the pigs are more equal than others.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Possibly, but not very likely.

Relative to the way we see ourselves today as being civilised, most aspects of life for our distant ancestors could be described as anarchic.

Easy to say. Impossible to do.

I am sure that if we were to dig deeply enough, we are all the descendents of thieves.
By today's definition of ownership, theft has not taken place since nobody legally owned the property in the first place. If you want to take the view that property "owned by the people" should be returned "to the people" then fine. The law doesn't support that notion and I don't either.

Can you name a country where it is implemented on a national scale?

The trouble is that it really isn't.

You couldn't have said anything else, of course, but marks for having the courage of your convictions. It is all hypothetical, of course.......

There's no point in defending a government that is well past its sell-by date.

Revolution, not evolution - you said it yourself.

The trouble is that when you get into this it snowballs.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Nonsense!
Two wrongs do not make a right. Much of the current land can be traced to when it was stolen. The theft should be brought to justice.

It was owned by the state and used by all.

So you condone theft.

Not yet, but many towns and cities. The UK nearly adopted it, but WW1 got in the way .

It is and many great brains say so. I don't count you as a great brain.

The Tory Little Middle Englander coming out.

Go away!

Not really the aristocracy, Oxbridge, Harrow and Eton, Lords Ladies The Monarchy, large landowners.. all in the same boat. Read what I recommended.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Go to Notting Hill, Kensington, Islington, Eaton Square - all the places where the millionaires live - and you'll probably find there are more like 33 to the ha. You surely don't begrudge lesser folk the same opportunity <g>
FWIW my retirement home (I hope) will be a 25th floor flat in Melbourne city centre: one of 305 units on a one acre site. The developer had no problem selling them even though you could buy a house and garden in the suburbs or away from the city for much less.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Imm wrote:

These are the town houses. Invariable they will have a country one too.

I wish we all had two houses.

How does flats ain a foreign country relate to planning and land ownership in the UK? What is your point?
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Imm wrote:

That is nice to know.

The UK is plentiful in land too, they will not allow us onto it to build. We continue...

Because they are not rammed into a tiny percentage of the land mass like we are.

The majority of people "do not" want to live in the middle of a city in a high rise.

If the market is open and free then yes. If the market is rigged, as it is in the UK, then it is a false impression.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
abuse-imm (a) writes:

They are the "minority". get it?
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I sure don't. Does anyone here (other than IMM himself) get what IMM is saying?
--
Selah

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I assume English is not your natural language with a name like Selah.
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Can I therefore assume English is not your natural language with a name like Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free?
--
Selah

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
sg> I sure don't. Does anyone here (other than IMM himself) get what sg> IMM is saying? He seems to be saying that the reason there is a difference of hundreds of thousands of pounds between the price of land and the price of land with development permission is not that development permission is valuable, but something unspecified to do with how much land the Duke of Westminster ownes in Sutherland and so on.
He also seems to be saying that the reason that homes in good bits of cities are expensive or high density or both is not that they are in demand and space is limited, but again something about the Duke of Westminster and his peers.
Beyond that all attempts to make him explain himself just results in wriggling and restatement of his unexplained leap of logic.
Personally, I'd love to find out how it is that I can convert some 4K farmland into 400K development land `dirt cheap', but he won't say. Bastard! :-)
--
Mail me as snipped-for-privacy@MYLASTNAME.org.uk _O_
|<
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.