Jammed keysafe. Grrr.....

[mike]

Social Services lent me a temporary keysafe for an elderly relative on Friday, until I could get over and instal a permanent one. It's this one:

It seemed dodgy as they were trying to set the code but I assumed it was just stiff as it was new.

By Saturday it was playing up, and now some of the numerical buttons won't push in and the keys are stuck inside it.

Their solution so far has been to bang on the windows and wave until my deaf, increasingly confused, 97-year old relative spots them and lets them in (or not).

This doesn't seem like a viable long-term solution to me but apparently the wretched thing is on loan to Social Services from another department and they're reluctant to do anything that might damage it in case they're not lent any more.

I don't expect anyone to tell me how to break into the bugger on a public newsgroup but does anyone have any ideas I might try to get the swine working again. I know the code.

At the moment the situation reminds me of the old Two Ronnies joke about someone with a temperature to whom the police sent round a social worker with a megaphone to try and talk it down.

[Ericp]

until I could get over and instal a permanent one. It's this one:

stiff as it was new.

in and the keys are stuck inside it.

increasingly confused, 97-year old relative spots them and lets them in (or not).

wretched thing is on loan to Social Services from another department and they're reluctant to do anything that might damage it in case they're not lent any more.

newsgroup but does anyone have any ideas I might try to get the swine working again. I know the code.

someone with a temperature to whom the police sent round a social worker with a megaphone to try and talk it down.

Try a decent penetrating oil or WD40 as a last resort.

[newshound]

until I could get over and instal a permanent one. It's this one:

stiff as it was new.

push in and the keys are stuck inside it.

increasingly confused, 97-year old relative spots them and lets them in (or not).

wretched thing is on loan to Social Services from another department and they're reluctant to do anything that might damage it in case they're not lent any more.

newsgroup but does anyone have any ideas I might try to get the swine working again. I know the code.

someone with a temperature to whom the police sent round a social worker with a megaphone to try and talk it down.

My usual approach to things like stuck buttons is to spray every entrance liberally with penetrating lubricant, then jiggle anything which can or should move. Personally I consider WD40 to be OK for this, but some don't like it because once the "thin" oil has evaporated it leaves a thicker sticky oil which may attract debris. The "thin oil only" products are often called dewatering fluids.

It's definitely best to use an aerosol because they "foam up" as the propellant escapes, and as long as you can get it into the works, the foaming may help to dislodge debris.

Not applicable in your case I guess, but ultrasonic cleaners can be effective, I'd probably use white spirit since it is a hydrocarbon and thus wets metal effectively, and has some lubricating properties.

[polygonum]

Are you getting confused with Steve Firth's naked man thread?

:-)

[Bod]

[newshound]

Yes, plus gas used to be very good (and probably still is). I meant that I use white spirit in my cheap US cleaner which I think came from Maplins.

[bod]

[Tim+]

Personally, I would have thought that if it's dodgy it shouldn't be reused and you'd be doing everyone a favour by attacking it with an angle grinder or big hammer.

Tim

[Peter Parry]

newsgroup but does anyone have any ideas I might try to get the swine working again. I know the code.

Try using the code but in a different order, so 4321 or 3214 etc rather than 1234. Many mechanical locks of that sort will accept the numbers in any sequence.

[Brian Gaff]

Just before the angle grinder. Brian

[DerbyBorn]

"Brian Gaff" wrote in news:kqe4l5$pfc$1@dont- email.me:

I realise it is not a wall mounted one - but the wall mounted ones are utter s**te. If you tighten them to the wall and get a bit of distortion due to the wall not being flat then they jam. Also the space for keys is absolutely pathetic.

[mike]

Thanks for all the replies.

Social Service have just phoned to say that one of the carers managed to ge t it open last night... so they have put the keys back in on the basis that it's probably just a bit stiff. Oh, jeez...

I will give the WD40 or some silicone oil a go. Don't have any Plusgas.

I tried the numbers in other sequences as I realised that would also work ( in theory) but one number just wouldn't depress.

Out of interest, could someone just confirm (or correct) my hazy recollecti on of O-Level probability:

With a 4-digit dial-type key safe, there is a total of 10x10x10x10 = 1000

0 possible combinations of which only one will work. So probability of ent ering working code by chance is 1 in 10000.

But with a push-button safe where no number can repeated in the 4-digit seq uence, the total number of possible combinations is 10x9x8x7 = 5040, and (because the digits can be entered in any sequence) the total number of wo rking codes is 4x3x2x1 = 24, so 24 codes in a total of 5040 or probabilit y of entering working code by chance is 1 in 210.

[F]

It's simpler than that: any whole number between 0000 and 9999. So, yes,

10000.

[Gazz]

Usually even less chance of getting the number wrong, as you can usually tell the buttons pressed for the code by them being clean whilst the rest are filthy, or wear on the commonly used buttons etc,

tho in this particular case, the code is changed regularly it seems, wonder if one of the code change levers/turn screws isnt properly engaged, causing the stiffness of one button in the code.

[Dave Liquorice]

*Maximum* of 10000 but you are forgetting that you can only use each digit once and that the digits can be entered in any order so 1234 is the same as 2134 or 2314 or 2341, etc, etc...

I'm not sure that the odds of entering the working code are 1 : 210 from the other post. I'm not a statastion or probabilty expert but have a sneaky feeling there is even more to it than meets the eye.

[charles]

I bought some for our village hall. It jammed almost immediately. The solution (to get it open) was to hit it hard on top with a hammer.

[John Williamson]

it open last night... so they have put the keys back in on the basis that it's probably just a bit stiff. Oh, jeez...

theory) but one number just wouldn't depress.

of O-Level probability:

possible combinations of which only one will work. So probability of entering working code by chance is 1 in 10000.

sequence, the total number of possible combinations is 10x9x8x7 = 5040, and (because the digits can be entered in any sequence) the total number of working codes is 4x3x2x1 = 24, so 24 codes in a total of 5040 or probability of entering working code by chance is 1 in 210.

Add to that the fact that with age, the buttons wear, so you just need to push the four worn ones in any order.....

[dennis]

You missed where he said dial type, they are not the same as the push button ones.

[dennis]

This type appears to be better

It has 4 times the number of combinations and is easier to operate. You don't need to enter the code again in order to lock it.

You can buy them cheaper.

[Dave Liquorice]

10x10x10x10

But we aren't talking about dial type but push button. The dial type was only mentioned to get the maximum number of permutations from 4 digits. The rest of the probabilty post is about push button like the push button key safe mentioned at the start of the thread.