How to approach builder's problem?

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

When U know then let me know;!..

Seems there're getting harder to find as time goes on. My Bro in law is a bricklayer and a good one but his sons weren't into being outside in all weathers.. not for them, and most any young person I know;!..

Right I didn't know this was a later add on but using sealant for a job like this well, it seems to me its patching up another problem elsewhere either in the build or the design or both of them adding together. I built a roof a few years ago and it didn't use any sealant's and it doesn't leak either..

Snipped..

I doubt that -all- the roof will have to be re done as there are a lot of roofs around older and in worse condition than yours. That dormer seems to be where most of the grief is. I'd look carefully as to how far the lead extends behind the slates and is there anyway of sloping that down at all so that the rain is having to go uphill as it were, thats to say away from the slates towards the dormer can it be "dressed" down more at the dormer end?.

Well I'm no expert but the dormer window doesn't look right to me somehow and that lintel is it really supposed to be as exposed and rusty as that?..

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[AnthonyL]

Most of the properties have had their windows enlarged over the years and some of them including some of mine less than sympathetically. This a a montage of original shape (left) and mine (right) - so the "dormer" window has lost its proportionality.

It's new as part of this project and I didn't realise till afterwards that it was untreated. What do I do now - have it all taken apart?

He's now put red-oxide and then painted the exposed strip. I don't know if it meant to be exposed - but it was a last minute decision to inset the window from being flush with the outer wall (hence the exposed strip).

The lintel was just to support the bricks filling the arch which previously were just on the window frame and as the mortar had cracked I had thought was the or a source of water ingress.

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

I think if it were me yes I would. What you really need is a "second opinion" and that can be very hard to obtain. The bricklayer I know of I reckon would be ashamed of that!..

Mind you he is a fussy sod bless 'I'm!..

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He wouldn't have mortar smeared over the bricks as this pix shows nor that mess up on the chimney!...

Even if it was to be pointed over!..

I wonder why he used a plain steel one rather then a Catnic galvanised one?. After all theres not that much weight up there and it's not a lot of brickwork either..

Any further forwards with the water testing as yet?..

By hose pipe of course..

[AnthonyL]

He's not near the East Midlands is he?

And who pays for it? I still haven't paid the bill in full.

No idea and I guess neither has he.

Not yet, wondering whether to cut a slit and arrange a trickle between the tiles and the felt from the loft and see what happens where the felt terminates against the woodwork for the gable and around there.

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

'Fraid not;(...

Well it seems to me he hasn't done a job that satisfies the requirements in that the roof is still leaking!..

Let alone the rusty lintel which a coat of red oxide won't really keep the rust out .. that goes on before the rust starts;!..

It wouldn't instil much confidence in me at all..

I'd check it as it is in place if it were me I'd get a mate to either be up a ladder with the house spraying it in the ways the rain "could" come at it and then be inside looking for trouble!..

[AnthonyL]

I wonder if we are talking at cross-purposes here. The lintels I'm talking about are angle iron fitting directly above each window and just bearing the weight of the handful of bricks used to fill in the arch. As the window is inset by about 1.5" then that 1.5" of lintel has become visible. The angle iron is new and a bit of surface rust had started to develop.

There is also an old arched iron metal support in the gable which as far as I know will have been there since the house was constructed in

1860 and as far as I can tell simply provides a support whilst the arch is constructed. Once the arch is in place I assume/hope there is no load on that iron. Is that what you are picking up?

[tony sayer]

Yes I understand the dual lintel aspect but leaving that much bare steel exposed unprotected in the first case doesn't strike me as a very pro job...

I thought you said that this dormer was a later addition since 1860 odd when I presume the house was first built?..

[AnthonyL]

No, as per my post in response to yours yesterday:

Shows examples from other similar properties of how the windows are (on the left) and how mine (and several others) are now.

From newspapers used for packing around the frame I suspect mine was enlarged in the mid '70's.

I had the same sized windows replaced with double glazed windows in

2000 having previously had the roof re-tiled/refelted in around 1986.

I can't now rule out that the 1986 refelting didn't introduced a problem.

I really want it to pour down this week, not just the odd shower as forecast.

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

This leakage problem was there wasn't it before the builder started work and if so he was aware that this was one of the objectives of the work's?..

[AnthonyL]

Yes. My original post on this subject explains this (12 May).

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

Well then thats a matter I'm sure you can hold him too but it does seem it will take sometime to resolve if your waiting for some rain ..

Oh hang on!, its predicted for later;!..

But overall I'd have though he would be as concerned with getting this right as what you doing there are shouldn't be rocket science these days and shouldn't have to resort to additional sealants. Tiles and slates and lead have been around for centuries ..

If it were me I'd be up there with a house pipe looking for trouble;!..

[AnthonyL]

Yes it rained overnight. Damp patches either side of the dormer window inside.

Not so easy to get up there. The opportunity was lost when we had scaffolding up to the chimney for 3 weeks.

[tony sayer]

In article , AnthonyL scribeth thus

Not good:(..

Well take pictures and put it in writing to the builder that your unsatisfied with the work and that until such time as its put right then your withholding payment.

If he's got anything of a reputation then he should get it put right or get someone in who knows how to do it or can diagnose the fault. If he argues or wants to settle in court then you have a good case.

And he should realise that if you have to argue with him then your very likely to tell most everyone you know that you have had a bad experience with him and of course thats publicity he can well do without...

;(..

[AnthonyL]

I've only just understood what you are saying here as I imagined myself as a drop of water racing down the roof!

Last week the builder sealed the edge between the valley flashing and the dormer roof slates with lead sealant. However that didn't stop the problem.

Do you reckon the speed of the water coming down in a good downpour would be enough to still get behind the tiles on the dormer roof?

The wet spot inside is just about underneath the lower end of your red line in that picture.

[AnthonyL]

I'll need to get a glossary of building terms.

Well he's certainly tried to.

I'm trying to find a registered building surveyor. The problem has to be fixed and it isn't going to be this builder who's going to do it.

Meanwhile thanks for your help and advice. I'm sure the right person will just take one look and spot the issue. I just need to find that right person.

[Dave W]

I've only just found this thread. I'm not an expert, but I do have an unlined slate roof. Your photos seem to show that the lead flashing lies on top of the main roof tiles, not underneath them. If so, of course the water on the main roof will flow under the flashing and into your room. Any cement along the edge of the flashing is not going to make a watertight seal. Maybe some sort of rubbery gunge could be painted over the edge to seal it at least temporarily.

[tony sayer]

Well at the chimney thats how there're supposed to go!..

Which bit of the roof are you talking about?..

[tony sayer]

See what you mean but I think theres another bit of lead up the wall there which does go under the slates. Be a simple enough job to stick a hose outside the window and up there to see if that is where its getting in..

[Dave W]

I'm talking about the flashing to the left of the slates over the window, which is what this whole thread is about. The hose would be a very good thing to try.

[AnthonyL]

If you mean the 3 section flashing coming down to near the guttering (and not the valley itself) then the tiles are on top of it and the water ingress is at least one course of bricks higher than the top of that flashing.

Roofers have tried a hose - though obviously not in the right place or not enough volume.