Have you ever examined a piece of work and wanted.......

[David WE Roberts]

....to shake the person who did it warmly by the throat?

I have started to dismantle the kickplates (or whatever) under the kitchen units because I saw a large grey mouse emerge from under a unit, run the length of the kitchen and back, then dive back under the units.

That end of the kitchen is solid floor (an extension/conversion of an outside loo and coal shed to make the kitchen longer).

Sometime after the kitchen was installed (and I think Noah had a hand in the original kitchen installation - or one of his contemporaries) someone decided that the floor wasn't quite flat enough and put down some of that nice spready self levelling compound.

They didn't bother to disturb the units, just levelled up to the base and left a nice little ridge round the edge for good measure.

Strangely, I encountered some difficulty in removing the covers round the base of the units. Nothing a club hammer and a length of flat iron bar couldn't solve, but neverthless I would like to discuss forward planning with whoever put that self-levelling compound down.

[Update - whilst typing this I heard a scrabbling sound from the kitchen and our ginger cat is now out on the back lawn batting at something. Go Moose! My hero!!]

All I have to do now is to replace the long piece of tasteful dark oak chipboard which I smashed into two pieces. I did note that one end had been extensively damaged previously and I assume this was from a previous failed attempt to remove it.

I am so looking forward to replacing this kitchen. I would dearly love to use a flame thrower to destroy it. I hate the nasty thing.

Grragh!

Dave R

[stuart noble]

What else would a flooring contractor be expected to do?

He'll bring the mouse back indoors shortly so he's got something to play with during the night.

[Huge]

Oh, frequently.

[Adrian Simpson]

In article , David WE Roberts writes

You must have met the "gentleman" who built the extension onto my house.

Adrian

[Bill]

In message , Adrian Simpson writes

Maybe the same one who built the extension my houses previous owner employed.

2.5mm T&E feeding an 8KW electric shower, buried at 45 degrees straight into the plaster. Toilet cistern mounted onto a plaster wall and then tiled around, badly. Cheep, non-flooring chipboard downstairs floors mounted on 2nd hand roof joists. This was all done in about 1990, easy to work out by the date on the newspapers that were used to pack the larger holes before plastering!! .............

[Jules Richardson]

coldly by the throat in the case of our back porch, when I lifted the carpet and discovered a gale blowing in through the gaps between the walls' sole plates and the concrete floor :-)

I'm tiling aforementioned porch soon (once I put a raised floor in there) and I am tempted to pull the cupboards that are in there, tile the whole darn lot, then put the cupboards back. Chances are we'll replace 'em at some point with something that might not be exactly the same dimensions...

We have one mouser - except he often eats them and then sicks them back up later, sometimes insisting on doing it in the house. There's nothing quite like cleaning up half of a semi-digested rodent...

cheers

Jules

[John Walliker]

Does he start at the head and work down to the liver, leaving the bottom half lying around on the lightest carpet in the house?

John

[TheOldFellow]

My wife frequently says "can't we get a little man in to do X, you'll take forever" (I don't know why she thinks all tradesmen are little...). And I say "No". There then ensues the 'usual discussion', and then I say "remember the xyz...". And we agree that it's best to take forever and have it done right.

I do use tradesmen for some things, but I have personal recommendations first, and they get a small job before the big one.

R.

[T i m]

Yup, we have them ...(conversations not little tradesmen).

And that is the thing isn't it. You would (they do) assume that if you got in 'a professional' that it would always be a better job that we (d-i-y'ers) could do but it often isn't. Or maybe it is just that we are too fussy? [1]

Ok, I know thy have yo make it viable to stay in business but often they take longer because of the shortcuts they try that go wrong or the amount of time they have to spend on the snagging.

I do genuinely feel sorry for one trade that has been screwed by another ... like the plasterer filling up the electricians boxes etc. ;-(

[1] Where our 'pride' and desire to get something 'right' overwhelms the nature of the job and prevents us from going out and doing other things? ie, Even if was done half as good as we will do it it would still be considered acceptable to probably everyone else but us (and unfortunately that's all that matters, to us). ;-)

As you say, if it takes a day or a week, you have to look at it for ever and even a week will vanish into a millisecond once it's finished.

[David in Normandy]

At one place I lived I noticed the live and neutral wires had been fitted the wrong way round to an electric shower (as per the terminal markings). So I swapped them the right way round and turned on the power. BIG BANG!!! Fuse blown. Closer investigation revealed there was a live to earth short inside the shower heating unit and some maniac had "solved" the problem of the fuse keep blowing by reversing the wires so there was a neutral to earth short instead. I leave it to the resident sparkies to say how dangerous it was to use the shower? This was in the days before RCD's etc.

[The Medway Handyman]

Sort of double edged sword here. If you are DIY'ing you can take forever to get the job 'just right', even spread it over several days, but you can't spend that time if you are trying to earn a living doing it. Either you overcharge the customer or go skint. The balance is doing an acceptable job for an acceptable (to both) price.

The other side is the experience gained by doing DIY for a living. I'm so mauch faster at doing jobs now than I ever was. Almost 100% first time fixings, leak free plumbing joints etc. I reckon if flat pack was an olympic event I'd win a gold. Simply a case of doing the same job time & again.

Added to that, now I do this stuff full time I can justify buying the right tools for the job. Thats a real luxury when I do jobs around Handyman Towers. I also get some jobs simply because I have the right kit e.g. ladders, SDS drills etc & the customer doesn't.

[Tim Watts]

David in Normandy wibbled on Thursday 18 March 2010 18:43

Fire risk at the very least. If it was a TN-S system in particular, there may be a few volts PD between E and N with the potential to pass a large current without the protection of any fuse.

[T i m]

Indeed (as I intimated).

Yup. On top of that though I've heard of instances that the 'professionals' not wanting to do a particular job, no matter what the money. One such instance was mechanic mate who wanted his toilet tiled. However he wanted the tiles cut round things, not just cut twice and jig sawed back together. 3 quotes from tilers but none to do it 'nicely' so he ended up doing it himself. He would have paid whatever they asked (pretty well).

Here's a thought then ... I wonder if you are good at what you do because of the path you (probably?) took getting there? Like, I wonder how many tradesmen did the full range of d-i-y things before they chose their trade. I know of several such who became carpenters or plasterers who would have no idea about 'electrics'? *and I'm not saying that's wrong, just I wonder if your skill set mean you can prevent many of the problems that might not be spotted by a single-skilled person)?

I bet ...! ;-)

Oh yes. I've been able to help mates because I happen to have a 1m long 25mm SDS drill bit. ;-)

It can have it's flip sides of course (if you aren't doing it for money). "Ere, you have a 1m long SDS drill, fancy coming round and .... " ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[The Medway Handyman]

Two thoughts on that. Anyone quoting for a job wants to be competitive, but doesn't want to under quote & lose money. The customers idea of 'paying whatever' isn't going to be the tradesmans idea of it. Everybody wants the best quality, the most reliable service & the cheapest price.

Secondly, self employed tradesmen start to recognise 'difficult' customers up front. Generally if I go to do an estimate & the client starts telling numerous horror stories about various tradesmen he has employed - I and many others will walk away from the job - whatever you do you can't please some people.

Having a wide range of experience certainly helps, as does knowing your limits. I quite openly turn down some jobe because I'm not confidant I could do them well. People appreciate the honesty.

But yes, you can pre spot problems if you have a wider range of ecperience.

I sometimes think I should trade as Strood Tool Hire :-) I do get neighbours asking for bits of timber to be cut to size, the loan of ladders etc, can I 'borrow' a few wall plugs...

And I still get calls from both daughters, sister in law, mother in law....

[Adrian Simpson]

In article , The Medway Handyman writes

Not _everybody_. Depending on the particular job, I'll take a different two of those (and no, I don't live anywhere near the Medway !).

Adrian

[The Natural Philosopher]

One of the key things you need to learn when selling, is when to walk away.

The more confident you are in yours skills, and your judgement of people, the easier it is to do this before time is wasted.

The best way to walk away is to work out how much pain in the arse this guy is going to be, charge accordingly and double it.

The more the bastard pays, the more they respect you.

And if he doesn't take you on, its tantamount to him admitting he can't

*afford* your quality.

Conversely, if he does, give him that level of quality. You can now afford his million mind changes and indecisions and U turns. Its all priced in.

I had a lovely bloke to do my decoarating.

'Ok mate, what do you want, tart up to flog it, council house style, gold plated arab, or the pukka solid job'

I settled for council house style in te certain knowledge that the wood shrinkage would means redecoration in 5 years anyway. Its been 7 and it may be time to get him back for the 'pukka job' which, after three years, we decided to do on the exterior woodwork. sanded and three coats of the best, please. Two hadn't lasted.

[T i m]

The mate in question that wanted the tiling done 'nicely' (by that he meant doing whatever was possible to use whole cut tiles, fitted around things) and if to do it 'typically' (whatever was considered acceptable by the trade at that time) cost £200 I *know* he would have happily have paid double if not treble that to have had it done 'nicely'.

Similar with getting the Gas board to fit new space heaters in his workshop. Long story short, they eventually fitted bigger heaters (as he questioned on several occasions at the beginning) at their own cost because "*they thought* he wouldn't have paid the higher price for the bigger ones ..."!?!

Obviously they weren't aware that his budget would have easily and happily covered the bigger units plus some. He expects people to pay the right price for his work and treats other trades and service suppliers equally.

A TMH says, he may not be typical of 'that sort of customer' but to assume they don't exist might be a good earning opportunity missed?

Cheers, T i m

[The Medway Handyman]

A rare bird. If the 'going rate' was £200, I'd never have guessed his 'nicely done' price would have been £400 - £600. I'd have assumed £250.

I can appreciate their thinking.

I think thats like assuming rocking horse droppings don't excist :-)

[Tim Watts]

The Natural Philosopher wibbled on Friday 19 March 2010 21:10

I like that summary :)

[T i m]

Then that's the thing. There are folk out there that prefer to buy themselves out of doing work that 1) they would rather not do, 2) isn't their trade (but could still do a reasonable job) and 3) have enough money to be able to pay (nearly) 'whatever' to get such done the way they require. I have several such mates that certainly say such things to me when I ask if they have a spending limit on something they have asked me to look at / replace for them. "Just get it" sorta thing. Maybe they trust that I will look for the best deal for them?

So can I (I guess) but surely the best plan would be to offer the customer a range, advise the best option then let them choose (as TNP said).

When the Gas board installer came in with the new heaters my mate immediately questioned their suitability (too small). He even phoned the Gas Board and suggested the same to them before the fitter started work. At no point did he question or quibble about prices. If I was the salesman I think I would have picked up on that? So they run gas pipes, power, fit all sorts of bracketry and makes holes in the wall or roof, only to find it took half a day to get the place warm (just as my mate predicted). You don't work in a building over 30 years without having an idea about how it works. Another point obviously missed by the sales dept.

Hmmm. Must be just me then. [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] When I was doing electronics repair, if I needed a new soldering iron or any other kit for that matter I would first have to clear it with my Boss. Nearly every time he would just ask 'how much' and as long as the value was below what he could sign off himself and was reasonable for whatever it was he would just sign a blank purchase rec and send me on my way. For all the other guys he would want to see the broken / faulty item.

However, another mate is a mechanic and he was saying how some people 'question' both the cost and/or validity of proposed work but they are generally first time customers (and not just in a 'any idea how much it will cost / is it worth it' type way).

He also has a few of the pre-mentioned 'just do it' customers. ;-)