Getting more from radiators

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IMM wrote:

There is no admin.
If you are concerned, then PGP sign all your messages. We can then assume that messages that aren't signed by you are not from you.
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R W wrote:

Shhush. You will be telling hin there is no Father Christmas next...

Oh for heavens sake. That is asking a bit much of someone without the first idea of how the world works, let alone encryption...

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On the film last night it was clear there was one.

Another one of those unqualified people who conned their way into IT, I see.
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writes

Of course the other possibility is for him to post to uk.secure.d-i-y
(and leave us all alone)
--
geoff

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Hello R

I've always wondered about that. Presumably you also need a pgp, or gpg compatible newsreader that checks a message against its key. For those who don't, a simple cut and paste of the original posters' public key should be enough to pass muster against the casual reader?
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On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:30:18 GMT, Simon Avery wrote:

No, the "key" part of the message also contains information about the message itself. So the key from one message won't validate against any other message.
(I think, it's years since I even half played with PGP)
But if you think about it a little, if the cut 'n paste worked PGP would less use than a chocolate teapot.
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Hello Dave

Yeah, but ...

... to validate it. My news reader doesn't have such facility, so pgp sigs are merely more useless cruft to be downloaded. I'd need to save the message out and manually run pgp/gpg over it and I've never found the need to do that since PGP was first written.
Maybe it'd work if everyone's news reader was thus enabled, but even then the negatives outweigh the positives I think.
Daft suggestion to sign in a public newsgroup where pseudonyms and anonymous email addresses are common imo, but then, so much that's associated with Imm is daft...
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wrote:

How are the sheep?
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writes

Do they get custody of the lambs?
--
geoff

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Those are not "keys", but digital signatures. They are generated using the originators private key.
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
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On 9 Dec 2003 11:45:02 GMT, Huge wrote:

Ah thats it, but apart from the incorrect term the rest is pretty close. The signature is a combination of the message body and private key, you can't take the signature from one message and copy it into another and expect it to validate.
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Correct.
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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Thats only true if you use pgp software to validate: if you dont, anything that looks vahuely right will be validated by your average human eyes and brain.
Regards, NT
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No they are not.
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com is not snipped-for-privacy@easy.com
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IMM wrote:
It will also become a

You may have - and indeed probably do have, deadly dull dinner parties.
However the rest of us have worked out that if the guests are a flippng bore, they don' get invited again, and a process of Darwinian selection now ensures the dinner parties are of good cheer.
I am not sure what you can do tho, as the problem is pretty
insoluble if the host is a crashing bore.

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On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:03:32 -0000, "Mark Trueman"

If you do replace it with a higher output one, then do check the pipework capacity. If you have a number or radiators connected in a group on 15mm pipes, for example, with average (whatever that is) pipe runs, the *total* heat that can be delivered is around 6kW.
This is because the heat that is deliverable is limited by flow rate and that ultimately is limited by pipe size.
To determine this, you really need to check the sizes of the radiators and look at manufacturer's data sheets to determine the output in kW. Then work backwards. If the pipework from the radiator in question connects directly to 22mm feed and return pipes from the boiler, then it is probably OK.
I'll give you an example of how this can be a problem. My house and that of my neighbour has the radiators connected using 8mm microbore tube. The rule of thumb maximum heat transfer for this size is 1.5kW. My neighbour decided that he wanted to increase the heat delivered in his living room because of a similar situation to you and increased the size of a radiator (which was 1500W) to a 3kW one.
He couldn't understand why it didn't get very warm and the return was practically cold. Fortunately, we were able to replumb it in 15mm to a position close to the boiler and resolved the problem.
.andy
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I thought microbore was used with faster pumps rates. Not being of the malleable cupric/leaden persuasion, I can only imagine the best solution to be replumbing the rooms anyway as the radiator is inadequate and badly sited. What would that cost?
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carry is 9Kw - but we don't know if a condensing boiler is fitted. If not then the same web page states 4.25 Kw maximum at 1.5m/s flow.

--
Andrew

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On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:17:20 +0000, Andrew

condensing boiler but because it *may* be possible to design the system around 70 degree flow and 50 degree return temperatures. However, for this to be possible, the radiators have to be derated to a factor of 60% of the data sheet value as opposed to the 89% or so for a conventional 82/70 degree system. That is not to say that a condensing boiler won't work if it is directly replacing an older 82/70 degree boiler. Typically it will increase its flow temperature accordingly when required to cover worst case weather conditions. However, the temperature drop may not be as much as 20 degrees any more and hence the heat transmission through the pipes is less. Heat output from the radiators is increased in this scenario because the mean water to air temperature is higher. Some condensing boilers can have their operating temperature limits set for different applications. For example on mine, I can set for 55, 70 or 85 degree maximum flow temperatures for UFH, condensing design or conventional design heat emitters.
The 6kW figure is given as a starting point in HVAC design guides as well as white papers on the Copper Development Association web site using a few metres of pipe. The CDA design guide then suggests, as I have done, to do the sums if the load is close to this figure. I tend to do the calculations as a matter of course if I am putting on radiators of capacity more than about a third of the rule of thumb number. It is a simple matter of looking up the numbers in tables and some addition and multiplication.

.andy
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