Disabled access ramp/Building Control advice needed.

[tom.harrigan]

Not exactly DIY, as I certainly won't be doing this myself, but...

I've been lumbered with the task of sorting out a disabled access ramp into the village hall. We have planning permission for a 1.25m wide,

12.5m long 1:15 ramp made from Hornton stone. The hall is on a sloping site, and at present is served by a flight of 8 stone steps. Several very elderly residents don't use the hall any more because of the access, and certainly no one in a wheelchair can get in.

I know the proposed ramp is too narrow, too long and too steep according to Part M. Unfortunately I have just been told by the highways department that the the design also encroaches on the highway, the footpath, and the village green, so they won't allow it as it stands. The only possibilities now are to build a shorter ramp, or do nothing.

What I want to do is construct a 1:10 ramp, about 9m long. It can't be made wider, but will look a lot better. It will be more in proportion to the hall, and it will sit within the curtilage so highways are happy.

So, the new ramp, while being much better than the existing access, will be narrower and steeper than stipulated in Part M. It will however, be just as wide as the surrounding footpaths, and less steep than they (or the roads) are.

Building control seem very unhappy with the proposal. The ramp will benefit everyone who uses it (the nursery is in the hall - so need pram access too) and will permit access by wheelchair. The BCO seems only concerned with the details of Part M, rather than the reality of the situation.

The hall is pictured on the front of this page:

suggestions on how to pursue the ramp, or should we just live with the steps?

T

[RubberBiker]

Write to the BCO describing the issue as you have done here, and ask him/her to propose a solution.

If they're unable to do so within the constraints you've described, and continue to be unwilling to accept your compromise - then it may be time to either use the formal appeals process - or get the local press and/or councilors on board.

I would imagine the potential negative publicity photo in the paper (you know, oldies in wheelchairs and bunch of miserable children at the bottom of the steps) might inspire them to new levels of willingness.

[nightjar]

You should request a relaxation of the building regulations. The BCO cannot offer you a relaxation as a solution, but ought to be willing to consider one, once you make the request. Obviously, there needs to be good grounds to grant one and you would appear to have those, but you need to spell them out in detail and explain why there is no alternative solution. It does, however, still depend upon how amenable the BCO is.. Of course, a ramp is not the only way to comply with access requirements and it may not even be the cheapest.

Bignell

[Peter Parry]

1:10 for 9m is quite a bit steeper than the normal 1:20 to 1:15 and greater than the usual maximum of 1:12 for no more than 2m. 1 in 8 is about the absolute maximum many wheelchair users can cope with for even a very short run.

With a 9m long 1:10 run the ramp would not be suitable for many self propelled wheelchair users or (as is often the case) especially when going down when the "pusher" is barely more able than the sitter in the chair.

It will also be harder than steps for many with arthritic knees to manage.

Your local authority should have a designated ?"access design officer" or "disabilities officer" who _should_ know about these things. They should be consulted if they have not already been.

Would an external lift such as

an option?

[tom.harrigan]

I take your point about the gradient, but it is less than the footpaths and roads leading to the hall. Further, self-propelled wheelchair users cannot use that hall - they can't get in. Neither can some of the old folks who can't make the stairs, or the mad old dear who bombs around on her motorised chair. If someone can travel 9m to the hall under their own steam, they will be able to negotiate the proposed ramp.

T

[Adrian C]

For the short term the above may yield to a 'solution', but publicly putting their backs up may eventually lead to some internal council department crossover of 'jobsworth unhelpful attitude' - such as from those who may be later involved in finance and funding of grants etc...

Ye be rockin' the boat :-(

[Phil L]

Tell the BCO that that is the only way you can think of and see if his dept can offer a better solution - it won't and indeed, can't, so if he carries on dragging his heels, tell him you've contacted a solicitor who specialises in the DDA.

The ramp will be started the following day.

[Stuart Noble]

I imagine there's a department in your local council whose job it is to encourage wheelchair access. Maybe some bureaucrat has a quota to achieve and could put pressure on the BCO. They built a ramp at our local library about 3 years ago, which I know for a fact hasn't been used once, and they are now going to remove loads of books to install a lift. Whoever makes that kind of decision is probably the man you need to talk to

[nightjar]

....

Unlikely. First, it is whoever is responsible for administering the hall that has the legal responsibility to provide access. Second, a ramp is not the only option.

Colin Bignell

[Hugo Nebula]

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:31:10 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee, [e-mail] randomly hit a keyboard and produced:

Apologies to Peter for repeating what he has said already, but as always, he's spot-on.

The gradient and the length of the ramp are the critical things here. As Peter says, it needs to be shallow enough to allow people to push or wheel a chair up, and prevent one freewheeling down. The steeper the ramp, the shorter it needs to be, and needs more frequent level landings to rest partway up. The width is only a factor when people are needing to pass each other. Provided it's not heavily used, its width can be reduced.

You will need a flight of stairs (if you're planning to build your ramp where they currently are). Not all disabled people use wheelchairs. Some ambulant disabled people find a ramp worse than steps.

Consult the Council's access officer. If the local council don't have one, there is usually a local 'access group'.

I've seen ramps that are like ski slopes and are worse than useless. Just because the terrain is not wheelchair friendly doesn't mean your hall must be too. If it's on a sloping site, is there a possibility of an entrance in another elevation?

[Martin Bonner]

Well clearly it doesn't mean it /has/ to be wheelchair unfriendly. However it seems to me that if the terrain means there is no access to a wheel chair that doesn't involve 50m of 1 in 8 (for example), then it doesn't matter /what/ you do at the door - they still have to negotiate 20m of 1 in 8. If they can do that, then another 9m of 1 in

10 will probably not make any difference.

A (possibly) excellent solution.

[Peter Parry]

Who will only tell you anything you do has to meet the minimum acceptable criteria.

Providing access doesn't mean providing the nearest that will conveniently fit - it means providing something compliant with what in the main are sensible rules. In this case if a ramp with a practical slope and length can't be provided and a lift is unaffordable then doing nothing may well be the best solution. Some people may not be able to access the hall - but neither will they be able to injure themselves trying.

Unlikely.

[ARWadsworth]

The library or the ramp?

I found an overdue library book at my Grandads today whilst clearing the place out. I took it back to the library along with his library card as he no longer needs it. The librarian said "I am sorry to hear that. That means we will only have 2 visitors on a Thursday now"

Adam