There are a lot of people who work very hard. I've been disabled for 20
years and couldn't hold a job flipping burgers but before I became too
ill to work, wound up on Social Security Disability then dropped dead of
a heart attack, I worked my ass off. I worked on those days when I
wasn't so sick and in pain to get out of bed. I do my best to help my
roommate with his business so I don't turn into a mushroom but I'm so
frustrated to lack the strength to run up and down ladders as I could
when I was in my 50's. Most of the guys I know who own their own service
businesses are disabled in one way or another. They work when they can
and like I did, find someone in better health to help with the business.
There is a whole invisible workforce out there composed of the working
disabled who receive no government help. I didn't want to receive any
help from government programs but I became too ill to work. It's so
frustrating to be unable to be completely self reliant as I once was and
it's very difficult for me to depend on anyone else. I spent most of
last May in the hospital after dropping dead of a heart attack and was
sent home to die while receiving home hospice care. After 6 months, my
nurse told me I was being dropped from hospice care because I wasn't
dying fast enough. It's because I never gave up and I'm too ornery to
give up and die. ^_^
The use of neo-nicotinoid-coated seeds by farmers is also somewhat
sudden in US/Canada.
Neonicotinoids are a class of neuro-active insecticides chemically
similar to nicotine and I believe they are now banned or restricted in
Europe and will probably soon also be in US and/or Canada.
Neonicotinoids are the first new class of insecticides introduced in the
last 50 years, and the neonicotinoid imidacloprid is currently the most
widely used insecticide in the world.
Imidacloprid is the typical active ingredient in consumer
over-the-counter insecticide products sold by big-box retailers in
US/Canada for at least the past 5 years.
The use of some members of this class has been restricted in some
countries due to some evidence of a connection to honey-bee colony
collapse disorder. In January 2013, the European Food Safety Authority
stated that neonicotinoids pose an unacceptably high risk to bees, and
that the industry-sponsored science upon which regulatory agencies'
claims of safety have relied may be flawed. A study by Italian
researchers, published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences of the United States of America on October 21, 2013,
demonstrated that neonicotinoids disrupt the innate immune systems of
bees, making them susceptible to viral infections to which the bees are
In March 2013, the American Bird Conservancy published a review of 200
studies on neonicotinoids including industry research obtained through
the US Freedom of Information Act, calling for a ban on neonicotinoid
use as seed treatments because of their toxicity to birds, aquatic
invertebrates, and other wildlife. Also in March 2013, the US EPA was
sued by a coalition of beekeepers, as well as conservation and
sustainable agriculture advocates who accused the agency of performing
inadequate toxicity evaluations and allowing registration of the
pesticides to stand on insufficient industry studies.
On May 24, 2013, the European Commission imposed a number of use
restrictions on neonicotinoid insecticides, which are suspected to be a
contributing factor of bee colony collapse disorder. Recently published
evidence that neonicotinoids disrupt the immune systems of bees may lend
political support to the EU's actions.
The term "neonicotinoid" is now somewhat common over the past year or
two in general media news stories about bee colony reductions and
deaths. It was an unknown term prior to 2 years ago.
And to make their products more "acceptible" to the public going
forward, look for the word "bees" to be removed from these labels, but
the words "wasp" and "hornet" will stay. But old pharts will still buy
the product to kill anything that makes a nest or hive, regardless how
harmless, manageable or beneficial they are.
On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:02:50 AM UTC-4, HomeGuy wrote:
You must be a real genius to figure out what all the scientists
working on the problem haven't be able to. If it were related to new
pesticides used by farmers, then you'd expect to see colony collapse
disorder in areas with lots of farming that uses those pesticides and
not in similar areas with little or no farming and in areas where they
don't use those new pesticides at all. AFAIK, there is no such correlation
As of now, no one knows that the cause is, if there is a single cause,
if there are multiple causes, etc. Everything from pesticides, to viruses,
and electromagnetic waves are on the list.
I would not be convinced that chemicals don't have something to do with
c.c. More importantly, with bee hives being hauled around the country
to pollenate commercial crops, I think they likely get
disoriented/stressed. For commercial pollenating, they would likely
encounter higher doses of chemicals. In nature, they build a hive and
stay there, travelling to the yummiest pollen/nectar in the near area.
The last time I saw a lot of honey bees around was about 1970, when we
had a yard full of clover....got my first bee sting then. In gardening
in Florida, I would see one or two, now and then; very infrequently.
Now, with a new home and newly installed flower/hedge beds, I began
seeing a lot of them last year on my sedum plants; succulents with flat,
fuzzy reddish or pink blooms. The odd thing about these is that they
spend warm, daylight hours moving around on the plant; they don't seem
to travel back and forth to a hive.
On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 10:36:30 AM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:
Yes, but the problem with that is that it's also happening to native bees,
bees in areas where they aren't near farming that's using the new
pesticides that are possible suspects. And if it's older pesticides,
then the folks who supplied hives to farmers for decades would have
had dead bees for decades, being at ground zero. If it's pesticide,
you'd expect those bees taken to farms to be heavily impacted, while
native bees in remote areas would not be impacted at all. Yet it appears
to be happening everywhere.
I guess he is:
<A United States appeals court ruled on Thursday that federal regulators
erred in allowing an insecticide developed by Dow AgroSciences onto the
market, canceling its approval and giving environmentalists a major victory.
The ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in
San Francisco, is significant for commercial beekeepers and others who say a
decline in bee colonies needed to pollinate key food crops is tied to the
widespread use of a class of insecticides known as neonicotinoids.>
It probably didn't take a genius to figure out. The EPA approved in 2010
(without rigorous testing) a new form of insecticide unlike anything
previously used and suddenly:
<The Agriculture Department said this year that losses of managed honeybee
colonies hit 42.1 percent from April 2014 through April 2015, up from 34.2
percent for 2013-14 and the second-highest annual loss to date.>
At least now the science will be done:
<In its ruling, the court found that the E.P.A. relied on "flawed and
limited data" to approve the unconditional registration of sulfoxaflor, and
that approval was not supported by "substantial evidence.">
On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 11:33:21 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
It's once again amazing how you find year old, long, off
topic threads and then revive them. And once again, you're
mistaking the facts and jumping to conclusions. You're mistaking
a court decision that enough testing was not done on sulfoxaflor
prior to approval
in the USA as scientific proof of the cause of colony collapse disorder
around the world. Then you try to link it's first use with colony
collapse disorder, without bothering to even see if it's used at
all in other countries that also have CCD. A quick check shows
that sulfoxaflor was just given approval for use in the EU last
month. Yet the EU has had CCD for years. In fact, they banned
neonicotinoids another insecticide, two years ago because they
bought some early and inconclusive science that possibly implicated
that insecticide. Now two years later, CCD still exists in the EU
and with large crop losses, the EU is reconsidering the ban.
The UK has already reversed the ban for those reasons.
The majority of scientists studying CCD, all the honest ones,
freely admit they aren't sure what causes CCD. One big problem
is that it's occurring in areas where neonicotinoids are used
and in areas where they aren't. Same thing with your sulfoxaflor.
CCD is occurring in areas with lots of agriculture and agricultural
chemical operations that use those insecticides and it's occurring
in areas without.
In short, court decisions on inadequate regulatory review of
a pesticide prior to approval doesn't make science that proves
anything about CCD. You're once again confused and grasping at
We haven't had a problem with non-pollination , and I'm for sure not going
to crawl around in the woods hand pollinating several dozen blueberry bushes
. <<actually , these are low-bush huckleberries>>
The beauty of doing it this way is that the seller does all the really
hard work - getting things going . I'll be attending a beekeeping class
later this month , but don't expect to have a lot of time invested until
time to collect some honey .
There are a lot of local beekeeping orgs around , but nothing says you
have to join ... you can probably find all the info you need in an afternoon
, print it out for later reference . Gloves , screened hat , smoker , and a
couple of small hand tools can all be had for well under a hundred bucks .
We decided to get into beekeeping as much for the honey as for the
pollination aspect . We have pollinators here , but they don't have the
added bonus of hunney ...
<<My wife is a big fan of the W the P character Eeyore , and so our place
has been named "The 12 Acre Wood" and the house is "Eeyore's Hideaway" ...
and so we'll be getting "hunney".>>
Oh, yeah. I forgot. I like ice cream, cake, icing, cookies, candy, but
I don't really like honey. Too sweet and esp. too sticky.
But I'm sure you'll enjoy your project, so that's good.
If nothing goes wrong, I'll post how many cherries I get this year, and
if it's low, I'll try to stay home when it flowers next year (18 days
after the peak of the cherries at the DC Cherry Blossom Festival, and
about 40 miles north of it) and do them all myself. It's a little
tree, half within reach and the other half 2 or 3 feet higher.
Relax, Micky. Adults? Here in AHR? Are you feeding me straight lines
It was a homage to a former English professor of mine, James Dickey. Some
will remember him as the author who penned "Deliverance" but he also wrote
about how farmboys will put their organs of generation in anything they can:
The Sheep Boy
Farm boys wild to couple
With anything with soft-wooded trees
With mounds of earth. . . .
It's really a remarkable poem and 100% Dickey who was by all means larger
than life. He wrote another interesting poem calling "Falling" based on an
actual event. He had heard a stewardess had fallen out of a plane and wrote
about what she might have been thinking on the long, long way down to her
death (she undresses - which is a far more common reaction to
hyper-stressful situations than people might think - a doctor friend says
it's because when people have serious breathing troubles they feel that
their clothes, particularly shirts, jackets, etc are too tight and keeping
them from breathing - who knows for sure?)
I think that entomologists tag them with a little plastic numbered plaques
and a dab of crazy glue. They might object to any award, though. (-:
Glad I could help. Be sure to let us know if it worked. I suspect from
what I've read you'll still have cherries but not nearly as many as you
might with a health population of bees. FWIW, I was outside working and I
saw no shortage of big fat bumblebees working over the Roses of Charon. So
it's not only the honeybees out there facilitating fruit tree sex. Soon,
you too will be artificial inseminating cherries. Reminds me of an Ag Fair
I once covered where this lovely young blonde that looked a lot like Tiger
Wood's ex donned this super long plastic glove that looked like a clear
opera glove, slicked it with goo and just rammed it right up a cow's rump.
What was even more amazing was that the cow was so used to it, it didn't
As for those poor honeybees - they get trucked all over the country, exposed
to more and different threats than they ever would as a fixed colony.
That's why I really suspect neonictinoids as the culprit. The EU ban will
precede ours so if their colonies recover and ours are still in collapse
we'll have our smoking gun.
Be thankful bee medical research isn't done like human research. The dead
bees are scooped up, blended into a puree and the centrifuged out to find
out what should be there, what's not, etc.
"Grandpa just died and they're putting him in the NIH cement mixer to see
what was wrong with him."
Google-groper trader_4 double-spaced and unnecessaryly full-quoted:
Are you sure, or are you simply extrapolating from news reports that
stake-holders (bee keepers) are seeing declines, and you are just
supposing the declines are also happening in urban areas, as reported by
backyard gardeners or casual observers?
The bees that get trucked around to polinate cash crops *are* being
Are there media reports where ecologists have measured bee populations
"everywhere" - in all possible settings, or just the ones that matter to
humans and are easily accessible?
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:50:50 AM UTC-4, HomeGuy wrote
Researchers have been all over this for years now. You think they
haven't done one of the most obvious things? One of the first things
you'd check is if it has correlation to areas where pesticide is being
used and where it's not. It's impacting bees all over, which is why
they can't figure out what the cause is. And it also suddenly popped
up within a year or so, it's not been a long gradual decline. And
it's happened occasionally with bees apparently going back 100+ years,
and similarly they couldn't figure out a cause.
I think think this sentence contradicts itself. If there are reports by
backyard gardeners or casaual observers, he' s not "just supposing".
He might not have enough evidence to convince you but just supposing
means no evidence at all.
And who else is going to report on cities?
Probably not -- you've set the bar incredibly high "everywhere... all
possible settings" -- . but otoh, the problem with bees is at least 10
years old and lots of people are looking into it, full time even, not
just industry employees (although there are several industries involved,
not just pesticides but farmers and agricultural suppliers, and
colleges in the farm belt (and the farm belt extends to 48 or 49 states)
and most of Canada and also Mexico if they are having bee problems, and
I'll bet they've checked a wide variety of settings and every possible
cause they could think of. Yet they have no answer.
I know what you mean. The "news" is often driven by press releases
by one corporation or one industry group, that only considers how it is
affecting them. And the "news" often does no more reseach. Often not
even on more controversial issues than this, where there is another side
even with its own press release
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:28:03 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
Exactly. Scientists aren't stupid. One of the first things they'd
do is gather data on where it is happening and where it isn't, to what
extent, etc. If there was a strong correlation to pesticides, a
particular pesticide, etc, they would have found the cause. It's kind
of hard for me to believe that pesticides suddenly caused this CCD
phenomen to pop up. You would expect it to ramp up gradually over
This is like AIDS in the early 80's. That disease sure behaved like
a new pathogen, but you had some scientists postulating that it was from
recreational drug use, immune systems collapsing from having had too
many prior diseases, etc. and not a new virus. There are even some
loons that deny HIV is the cause of AIDS today.
Pesticides and herbicides could impact them in a few ways, either by
direct chemical effect or by changing their food sources. With people
so anxious to kill everything that crawls in their yard, I'd be hard to
convince that chemicals don't have an impact.
AIDS didn't matter at all when it was a gay men's disease. When it hit
the blood supply and started getting hemophiliac children, it began to
matter. I still remember (I'm a nurse) the first patient with AIDS that
I diagnosed myself because nobody would talk about it or write it in a
medical record.....we weren't even using gloves all the time then, IIRC.
But AIDS is a good example of one condition making sufferers subject
to other conditions. Plain old stress in humans weakens the immunity
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