where are the honey bees?

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The Daring Dufas wrote:

Hi, Probably farmers/fisher men are hardest working bunch to feed us. I respect them whole heartedly.
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On 5/5/2014 10:14 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

There are a lot of people who work very hard. I've been disabled for 20 years and couldn't hold a job flipping burgers but before I became too ill to work, wound up on Social Security Disability then dropped dead of a heart attack, I worked my ass off. I worked on those days when I wasn't so sick and in pain to get out of bed. I do my best to help my roommate with his business so I don't turn into a mushroom but I'm so frustrated to lack the strength to run up and down ladders as I could when I was in my 50's. Most of the guys I know who own their own service businesses are disabled in one way or another. They work when they can and like I did, find someone in better health to help with the business. There is a whole invisible workforce out there composed of the working disabled who receive no government help. I didn't want to receive any help from government programs but I became too ill to work. It's so frustrating to be unable to be completely self reliant as I once was and it's very difficult for me to depend on anyone else. I spent most of last May in the hospital after dropping dead of a heart attack and was sent home to die while receiving home hospice care. After 6 months, my nurse told me I was being dropped from hospice care because I wasn't dying fast enough. It's because I never gave up and I'm too ornery to give up and die. ^_^
TDD
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trader_4 wrote:

The use of neo-nicotinoid-coated seeds by farmers is also somewhat sudden in US/Canada.
Neonicotinoids are a class of neuro-active insecticides chemically similar to nicotine and I believe they are now banned or restricted in Europe and will probably soon also be in US and/or Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid
------------ Neonicotinoids are the first new class of insecticides introduced in the last 50 years, and the neonicotinoid imidacloprid is currently the most widely used insecticide in the world. ------------
Imidacloprid is the typical active ingredient in consumer over-the-counter insecticide products sold by big-box retailers in US/Canada for at least the past 5 years.
------------------ The use of some members of this class has been restricted in some countries due to some evidence of a connection to honey-bee colony collapse disorder. In January 2013, the European Food Safety Authority stated that neonicotinoids pose an unacceptably high risk to bees, and that the industry-sponsored science upon which regulatory agencies' claims of safety have relied may be flawed. A study by Italian researchers, published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America on October 21, 2013, demonstrated that neonicotinoids disrupt the innate immune systems of bees, making them susceptible to viral infections to which the bees are normally resistant.
In March 2013, the American Bird Conservancy published a review of 200 studies on neonicotinoids including industry research obtained through the US Freedom of Information Act, calling for a ban on neonicotinoid use as seed treatments because of their toxicity to birds, aquatic invertebrates, and other wildlife. Also in March 2013, the US EPA was sued by a coalition of beekeepers, as well as conservation and sustainable agriculture advocates who accused the agency of performing inadequate toxicity evaluations and allowing registration of the pesticides to stand on insufficient industry studies.
On May 24, 2013, the European Commission imposed a number of use restrictions on neonicotinoid insecticides, which are suspected to be a contributing factor of bee colony collapse disorder. Recently published evidence that neonicotinoids disrupt the immune systems of bees may lend political support to the EU's actions. --------------------
The term "neonicotinoid" is now somewhat common over the past year or two in general media news stories about bee colony reductions and deaths. It was an unknown term prior to 2 years ago.
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micky wrote:

They're not around anymore - because of this:
http://www.dillonchem.com/images/PRODUCT/medium/CDRA2987.JPG
And to make their products more "acceptible" to the public going forward, look for the word "bees" to be removed from these labels, but the words "wasp" and "hornet" will stay. But old pharts will still buy the product to kill anything that makes a nest or hive, regardless how harmless, manageable or beneficial they are.
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On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:02:50 AM UTC-4, HomeGuy wrote:

You must be a real genius to figure out what all the scientists working on the problem haven't be able to. If it were related to new pesticides used by farmers, then you'd expect to see colony collapse disorder in areas with lots of farming that uses those pesticides and not in similar areas with little or no farming and in areas where they don't use those new pesticides at all. AFAIK, there is no such correlation . As of now, no one knows that the cause is, if there is a single cause, if there are multiple causes, etc. Everything from pesticides, to viruses, and electromagnetic waves are on the list.
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On 5/6/2014 10:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I would not be convinced that chemicals don't have something to do with c.c. More importantly, with bee hives being hauled around the country to pollenate commercial crops, I think they likely get disoriented/stressed. For commercial pollenating, they would likely encounter higher doses of chemicals. In nature, they build a hive and stay there, travelling to the yummiest pollen/nectar in the near area.
The last time I saw a lot of honey bees around was about 1970, when we had a yard full of clover....got my first bee sting then. In gardening in Florida, I would see one or two, now and then; very infrequently. Now, with a new home and newly installed flower/hedge beds, I began seeing a lot of them last year on my sedum plants; succulents with flat, fuzzy reddish or pink blooms. The odd thing about these is that they spend warm, daylight hours moving around on the plant; they don't seem to travel back and forth to a hive.
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On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 10:36:30 AM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:

te:

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Yes, but the problem with that is that it's also happening to native bees, bees in areas where they aren't near farming that's using the new pesticides that are possible suspects. And if it's older pesticides, then the folks who supplied hives to farmers for decades would have had dead bees for decades, being at ground zero. If it's pesticide, you'd expect those bees taken to farms to be heavily impacted, while native bees in remote areas would not be impacted at all. Yet it appears to be happening everywhere.



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I guess he is:
<A United States appeals court ruled on Thursday that federal regulators erred in allowing an insecticide developed by Dow AgroSciences onto the market, canceling its approval and giving environmentalists a major victory. The ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, is significant for commercial beekeepers and others who say a decline in bee colonies needed to pollinate key food crops is tied to the widespread use of a class of insecticides known as neonicotinoids.>
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/business/energy-environment/big-win-for-beekeepers-as-court-voids-insecticide.html
It probably didn't take a genius to figure out. The EPA approved in 2010 (without rigorous testing) a new form of insecticide unlike anything previously used and suddenly:
<The Agriculture Department said this year that losses of managed honeybee colonies hit 42.1 percent from April 2014 through April 2015, up from 34.2 percent for 2013-14 and the second-highest annual loss to date.>
At least now the science will be done:
<In its ruling, the court found that the E.P.A. relied on "flawed and limited data" to approve the unconditional registration of sulfoxaflor, and that approval was not supported by "substantial evidence.">
--

Bobby G.





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On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 11:33:21 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:

It's once again amazing how you find year old, long, off topic threads and then revive them. And once again, you're mistaking the facts and jumping to conclusions. You're mistaking a court decision that enough testing was not done on sulfoxaflor prior to approval in the USA as scientific proof of the cause of colony collapse disorder around the world. Then you try to link it's first use with colony collapse disorder, without bothering to even see if it's used at all in other countries that also have CCD. A quick check shows that sulfoxaflor was just given approval for use in the EU last month. Yet the EU has had CCD for years. In fact, they banned neonicotinoids another insecticide, two years ago because they bought some early and inconclusive science that possibly implicated that insecticide. Now two years later, CCD still exists in the EU and with large crop losses, the EU is reconsidering the ban. The UK has already reversed the ban for those reasons.
The majority of scientists studying CCD, all the honest ones, freely admit they aren't sure what causes CCD. One big problem is that it's occurring in areas where neonicotinoids are used and in areas where they aren't. Same thing with your sulfoxaflor. CCD is occurring in areas with lots of agriculture and agricultural chemical operations that use those insecticides and it's occurring in areas without.
In short, court decisions on inadequate regulatory review of a pesticide prior to approval doesn't make science that proves anything about CCD. You're once again confused and grasping at straws.
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micky wrote:

We haven't had a problem with non-pollination , and I'm for sure not going to crawl around in the woods hand pollinating several dozen blueberry bushes . <<actually , these are low-bush huckleberries>>

The beauty of doing it this way is that the seller does all the really hard work - getting things going . I'll be attending a beekeeping class later this month , but don't expect to have a lot of time invested until time to collect some honey .

There are a lot of local beekeeping orgs around , but nothing says you have to join ... you can probably find all the info you need in an afternoon , print it out for later reference . Gloves , screened hat , smoker , and a couple of small hand tools can all be had for well under a hundred bucks . We decided to get into beekeeping as much for the honey as for the pollination aspect . We have pollinators here , but they don't have the added bonus of hunney ... <<My wife is a big fan of the W the P character Eeyore , and so our place has been named "The 12 Acre Wood" and the house is "Eeyore's Hideaway" ... and so we'll be getting "hunney".>>
--
Snag



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wrote:

Oh, yeah. I forgot. I like ice cream, cake, icing, cookies, candy, but I don't really like honey. Too sweet and esp. too sticky.
But I'm sure you'll enjoy your project, so that's good.
If nothing goes wrong, I'll post how many cherries I get this year, and if it's low, I'll try to stay home when it flowers next year (18 days after the peak of the cherries at the DC Cherry Blossom Festival, and about 40 miles north of it) and do them all myself. It's a little tree, half within reach and the other half 2 or 3 feet higher.

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On Mon, 05 May 2014 16:13:29 -0400, Stormin Mormon

I'll look around for some small artists.
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wrote in message

Relax, Micky. Adults? Here in AHR? Are you feeding me straight lines again?
It was a homage to a former English professor of mine, James Dickey. Some will remember him as the author who penned "Deliverance" but he also wrote about how farmboys will put their organs of generation in anything they can:
The Sheep Boy
Farm boys wild to couple With anything with soft-wooded trees With mounds of earth. . . .
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/guide/179991
It's really a remarkable poem and 100% Dickey who was by all means larger than life. He wrote another interesting poem calling "Falling" based on an actual event. He had heard a stewardess had fallen out of a plane and wrote about what she might have been thinking on the long, long way down to her death (she undresses - which is a far more common reaction to hyper-stressful situations than people might think - a doctor friend says it's because when people have serious breathing troubles they feel that their clothes, particularly shirts, jackets, etc are too tight and keeping them from breathing - who knows for sure?)

I think that entomologists tag them with a little plastic numbered plaques and a dab of crazy glue. They might object to any award, though. (-:
Glad I could help. Be sure to let us know if it worked. I suspect from what I've read you'll still have cherries but not nearly as many as you might with a health population of bees. FWIW, I was outside working and I saw no shortage of big fat bumblebees working over the Roses of Charon. So it's not only the honeybees out there facilitating fruit tree sex. Soon, you too will be artificial inseminating cherries. Reminds me of an Ag Fair I once covered where this lovely young blonde that looked a lot like Tiger Wood's ex donned this super long plastic glove that looked like a clear opera glove, slicked it with goo and just rammed it right up a cow's rump. What was even more amazing was that the cow was so used to it, it didn't even twitch.
As for those poor honeybees - they get trucked all over the country, exposed to more and different threats than they ever would as a fixed colony. That's why I really suspect neonictinoids as the culprit. The EU ban will precede ours so if their colonies recover and ours are still in collapse we'll have our smoking gun.
Be thankful bee medical research isn't done like human research. The dead bees are scooped up, blended into a puree and the centrifuged out to find out what should be there, what's not, etc.
"Grandpa just died and they're putting him in the NIH cement mixer to see what was wrong with him."
--
Bobby G.







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micky wrote:

Toulouse-Lautrec has been dead for a long time. Good luck.
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On Mon, 5 May 2014 20:18:54 -0700 (PDT), Rod Bahlzenal

You're disgusting.
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Google-groper trader_4 double-spaced and unnecessaryly full-quoted:

Are you sure, or are you simply extrapolating from news reports that stake-holders (bee keepers) are seeing declines, and you are just supposing the declines are also happening in urban areas, as reported by backyard gardeners or casual observers?

The bees that get trucked around to polinate cash crops *are* being heavily impacted.

Are there media reports where ecologists have measured bee populations "everywhere" - in all possible settings, or just the ones that matter to humans and are easily accessible?
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On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:50:50 AM UTC-4, HomeGuy wrote :

Researchers have been all over this for years now. You think they haven't done one of the most obvious things? One of the first things you'd check is if it has correlation to areas where pesticide is being used and where it's not. It's impacting bees all over, which is why they can't figure out what the cause is. And it also suddenly popped up within a year or so, it's not been a long gradual decline. And it's happened occasionally with bees apparently going back 100+ years, and similarly they couldn't figure out a cause.
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On Wed, 07 May 2014 08:50:50 -0400, HomeGuy

I think think this sentence contradicts itself. If there are reports by backyard gardeners or casaual observers, he' s not "just supposing".
He might not have enough evidence to convince you but just supposing means no evidence at all.
And who else is going to report on cities?

Probably not -- you've set the bar incredibly high "everywhere... all possible settings" -- . but otoh, the problem with bees is at least 10 years old and lots of people are looking into it, full time even, not just industry employees (although there are several industries involved, not just pesticides but farmers and agricultural suppliers, and colleges in the farm belt (and the farm belt extends to 48 or 49 states) and most of Canada and also Mexico if they are having bee problems, and I'll bet they've checked a wide variety of settings and every possible cause they could think of. Yet they have no answer.
I know what you mean. The "news" is often driven by press releases by one corporation or one industry group, that only considers how it is affecting them. And the "news" often does no more reseach. Often not even on more controversial issues than this, where there is another side even with its own press release
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On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:28:03 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Exactly. Scientists aren't stupid. One of the first things they'd do is gather data on where it is happening and where it isn't, to what extent, etc. If there was a strong correlation to pesticides, a particular pesticide, etc, they would have found the cause. It's kind of hard for me to believe that pesticides suddenly caused this CCD phenomen to pop up. You would expect it to ramp up gradually over decades.
This is like AIDS in the early 80's. That disease sure behaved like a new pathogen, but you had some scientists postulating that it was from recreational drug use, immune systems collapsing from having had too many prior diseases, etc. and not a new virus. There are even some loons that deny HIV is the cause of AIDS today.
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On 5/7/2014 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Pesticides and herbicides could impact them in a few ways, either by direct chemical effect or by changing their food sources. With people so anxious to kill everything that crawls in their yard, I'd be hard to convince that chemicals don't have an impact.

AIDS didn't matter at all when it was a gay men's disease. When it hit the blood supply and started getting hemophiliac children, it began to matter. I still remember (I'm a nurse) the first patient with AIDS that I diagnosed myself because nobody would talk about it or write it in a medical record.....we weren't even using gloves all the time then, IIRC. But AIDS is a good example of one condition making sufferers subject to other conditions. Plain old stress in humans weakens the immunity systems.

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