Weird pilot light behavior

[Percival P. Cassidy]

A few months back I replaced the original 3-way switches (one in the house, the other in the garage) for our patio floodlights by 3-way switches with pilot lights:

All was well while the original incandescent bulbs were still in place (except that I was disappointed in the brightness of the pilot lights). Now, after replacing the original incandescents by compact fluorescents, the behavior of the pilot lights has changed:

Now the switch in the house has become an "illuminated switch" rather than a "switch with pilot light." IOW, now instead of the light being off when the outside lights are off and on when the outside lights are on, it is on (and much brighter than before) when the outside lights are off and off when the outside lights are on.

The one in the garage still behaves as it did before (i.e., on dimly when the outside lights are on, off when the outside lights are off) if the switch in the house is in one position, but when the switch in the house is in the other position, the light in the switch in the garage remains off no matter what position the switch in the garage is in -- even though it still switches the outside lights on and off.

I cannot even figure out how the switches could be constructed that would cause either of them to behave this way.

Perce

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Double check your wiring and read the enclosed instruction. Tony

[Pop]

It sounds like you might have done two things: 1, corrected a previously existing wiring error, and/or 2. cut the power draw by using flourescents, which might have the affect of letting the pilot get the power it's supposed to get.

Often those pilot lites operate simply by being placed right across the switch. Switch off, pilot's on. Switch on, pilot's off. For the opposite situation, they're placed across the load so that switch off, pilot's off; switch on, pilot's on. If the pilot's not wired across the ENTIRE load, then it won't be bright.

IF the pilot's a simple small incandescant, then as little as a ten percent voltage drop will make it noticeably dimmer and 20% is sometimes enough to stop it from even getting hot enough to glow.

My idjumacatid guiss anyway.

Luck Pop

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message news:yx1he.10952$ [e-mail]...

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I'm going to investigate further, but just to clarify:

1. There is no separate terminal on the switch for the pilot light; that is hard-wired internally.

1. It's the pilot light (which is an LED, not neon or incandescent) that glows with varying degrees of brightness: the CF floodlights work just fine, just as the incandescents did.

There really aren't too many wiring possibilities: The switch has Neutral (Silver screw), Ground (Green screw), Load/Common (Black screw), two Travelers (Brass screws). The existing wires were two Black and one Red, and I made new connections to the Neutral and Ground. About the only thing I could have done wrong is mixed up the two blacks.

Perce

On 05/13/05 01:16 pm Pop tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

[Doug Miller]

Actually, there is: it's the neutral.

Better check how your neutrals are connected. I'll bet that the neutral connections at the switches are in *series* with the floodlights.

Maybe you could post a diagram on a web site, or in a binaries group, showing

*exactly* where *all* of the wires run, and how they are connected?

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 05/13/05 03:53 pm Doug Miller tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Yes, that's true. If it weren't for the pilot light, the switch wouldn't need a neutral connection.

I'm not sure that I get what you mean.

The problem is that I have no idea what happens to the wires once they disappear into the wall. There could be all kinds of strange connections that I can't see.

Perce

[HorneTD]

hard-wired internally.

glows with varying degrees of brightness: the CF floodlights work just fine, just as the incandescents did.

(Silver screw), Ground (Green screw), Load/Common (Black screw), two Travelers (Brass screws). The existing wires were two Black and one Red, and I made new connections to the Neutral and Ground. About the only thing I could have done wrong is mixed up the two blacks.

Perce I'm working from memory but I think the problem may be that the pilot light can only be at the far end of the circuit so that it will only have power when the light does. Could you tell me the brand and model number of the switch so that I can confirm that for you.

-- Tom Horne

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 05/13/05 08:01 pm HorneTD tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

The switches are both Pass & Seymour / Legrand TM83PLICC:

The P & S Wiring Diagrams page shows one 3-way switch with a pilot light but notes that two could be used:

(The picture on the far right in the 2nd row)

But although the two switches light with different intensities when they light at all, they both illuminate only when the switch is in one specific position, i.e., when power is applied to the lower of the two Traveler terminals. And in that position, whether the outside lights are on or off depends on the position of the other switch.

Perce

[HorneTD]

Do you still have the wiring diagrams that are included with the switch? IIRC the switches have to be wired differently depending on which end of the circuit their in.

-- Tom Horne

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 05/13/05 08:35 pm HorneTD tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

I have the leaflets that accompanied the switches, but although the instructions say to label the existing wires then install "per corresponding wiring diagram," there are no "wiring diagrams" that show how to connect one or more switches in a circuit.

A note reads: "For three-way installation, Common denotes line-in or load out. Lighted switches may affect the performance of certain electronic ballasts."

The diagram for this particular switch shows terminals labeled "COM" and "NEU", two labeled "3W", and one with the standard Ground symbol. Internal resistors are shown between each of the "3W" terminals and one end of the lamp, the other end of which is connected to the "NEU" terminal.

Perce