Using pool water to cool A/C

Page 2 of 2  


Slightly warmer than the evap...much cooler than then the discharge side...

This is getting funny...keep it up...let us know how it explo...I mean turns out..
I suggest you look up chiller, Water Furnace, Florida Heat pump...etc...and think this over again..
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wow, And I thought I was the only "geek" that sat around and thought about this stuff!
Ryan, I hear what you are saying. In general I seem to be getting a lot of cautious/negative feedback on the idea. BUT, I have not heard one thing from someone who HAS actually tried to do this. It makes me wonder, how come nobody thinks it will work when nobody has even tried. Don't get me wrong, there are some people responding to this who have far more knowledge on refrigeration systems than I do. But, once again, they have never actually tried THIS before. I have a cousin who IS an engineer, he works for Copeland Compressors in Sydney Ohio. Okay, so here is someone who knows this stuff WAY more than me and probably more than most of the people who reply to this ng. His exact words to me were, "I cannot think of any reason that we can't make it work." His idea was to simply put the water exchanger inside the existing housing for the condenser (it is mostly open space inside there except for the compressor itself and water condensers are pretty small, (obviously if it wont fit then we will just have to install it somewhere nearby). We then install a three-way valve on the Freon line, in one position the Freon comes out of the compressor and goes to the air-cooled condenser just like it always has. In the other position it sends the Freon through the water-cooled condenser instead. This would be an electrically controlled valve which would also turn the over-head fan OFF whenever the water-cooled condenser was in use thereby cutting down on the noise and saving electricity. We would use two sensors on the water line, a pressure sensor, and a temp sensor, if the pressure drops too much it will automatically switch to the air-cooled condenser, (once again, just like it always has) or if the water gets too hot (say above 90 degrees) it will also switch to the air cooled condenser. I realize that this may mean that on the hottest days I will NOT be using the water-cooled condenser, on these days the pool will heat to 90 degrees on it's own (so it uses the air-cooled condenser. that it what it always has done no big deal). However, if the water level on the pool is low on those HOT days, guess what? We can run municipal water through the condenser and dump it in the pool what the heck, I gotta fill the pool anyway, (we could even regulate the municipal-to-pool water temp to get the inlet water temp for the condenser right where we want it without overfilling the pool) now I am cooling my house AND cooling the pool, win-win on a HOT day. And on those days that the A/C is running and the pool is a little chilly it is win-win again 'cause now I am cooling my house AND heating my pool.
One final note, my cousin will admit that he is not sure about the "chlorinated water eating the heat exchanger" problem. I did get a reply which lead me to this; http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/condensers_&_evaporators/condensers_&_evaporators.asp (I'm thinking the tube-in-shell model)
So it rots apart after 3-5 years , buy another one. If you can extend your pool season by 4-6 weeks per year it would probably be worth it, if it cuts your electric bill and lightens the load on your A/C then it would definitely be worth it! Good Luck Man Let me know how it goes, score one for the DIY's!!! Craig
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bunch of meaningless crap snipped.
For the last freaking time....
They make units designed for the purpose, and if your buddy that works for Copeland didnt know about it..then I call bullshit, since Copeland compressors are used in the very units that are made to work with a pool and cool and heat your home....
In other words..I think you just like to sit around and type meaningless crap...its obvious as hell to those of us that install units like that every year, that you have not tried hard to find one....all you have to do is look...and lord knows, you have been given enough links to the companys that make them.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Pumbaa writes:

Look, it's been tried. It works. But not cost-effective. More complex, more expense. Forget it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ok, so I'm only 6 months late on this discussion, better late than never...
The HVAC guys here are correct in that there are off the shelf solutions and that they're relatively expensive. However, what you're looking for isn't all that bad.
You've got desuperheaters designed to be spliced into A/C systems of the size common in home use, such as: http://www.packless.com/desuper/desuper.html
and you've got parts like: http://www.doucetteindustries.com/desuperheater.html see the docs which diagram the entire thing: http://www.doucetteindustries.com/ac_desuperheater.pdf
also, see: (geothermal based hot water) http://www.hydrodelta.com/images/brochures/Magnum.pdf
That gets you a water cooled assist/heat extractor for your A/C. Research indicates that you have the benefit of increasing your A/C efficiency by 5%-10% or considerably more. By extracting the heat from your coils, your A/C doesn't have to work as hard, extending its life and increasing its efficiency.
see also http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_idS08598
You've also got the geothermal companies selling high priced desuperheater units. As others have mentioned see Florida Heat Pump, WaterFurnace, ECR tech. for examples.
http://www.ecrtech.com/content/interior.asp?section=products&body=waterheating.htm http://www.waterfurnace.com/watertowater.asp
An experienced A/C tech would be able to install the desuperheater for you. Don't try this at home since you have to splice into the refrigerant lines.
As others have noted, you now have to get the pool water to the desuperheater without eating it up. Again, that isn't a big deal. Every pool heater sold has a heat exchanger that circulates chlorinated water without self-destructing.
Circulate the heated water/antifreeze from the desuperheater in a closed loop through a heat exchanger. Circulate the pool water through that heat exchanger. All your loops are closed and the nasty chemicals kept where they won't damage the expensive stuff. If you have to replace the heat exchanger, it's just a heat exchanger. If you don't want to worry about corrosion, then get a titanium heat exchanger meant for high chlorine pool use. Unfortunately the heat transfer characteristics of SS and Ti are relatively poor, so often copper-nickel (cupro-nickel) is used as long as you aren't going to use TOO high chlorine levels.
see: http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters.htm
As for being super expensive, people use that vague term but don't define what it means. Well, here's one concrete example for one component: http://www.southern-dist.com/Pricelist.html Desuperheater - $465
You need to add the circulation pump and labor to the equation. Even if the desuperheater complete system costs you a couple $k to make, the payback would only take a couple years not including the cost savings from improving the efficiency of the A/C unit. The thing to keep in mind is that complete standalone packages are expensive because in manufacturing, one typically uses a 4x-6x multiplier to figure sales price from parts costs. If a commercial unit runs a few grand, then the wholesale parts costs will be ~$750. So, if you can get the parts, maybe they'd cost you $1500 (allowing for 50% wholesale discount).
Then again, you could save all the playing around, forget the idea of heating using waste heat, and buy a normal heat pump for your pool for $3k... depends how much of a geek you are (spoken from a true geek who would spend several weeks playing with something to learn how its done)
Best of luck.
By the way, if you actually tried something out already, let us know!
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.