Turning Brake Rotors

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wrote:

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Don't worry about it.
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Oddly, both the authors of the factory service manuals for my cars, and the mechanics who have machined rotors for me in the past, don't agree with you.
Stick to subjects you know something about. This isn't one of them.
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On 7/2/2011 9:49 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Better stick to electrical advice there Dougy. I got you on this topic. 30+ years of ASE certification teaches a guy things.
--
Steve Barker
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Obviously it didn't teach you very much -- if you even have it, which (based on your silly claims) I rather doubt. I have to assume that the guys that wrote my factory service manual know just a little bit more about what should or should not be done on their vehicles than you do.
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:31:19 -0500, Steve Barker

Well, if you are saying it is federally mandated safety standards you are only PARTLY right. Federal law requires the minimums (or maximums)to be permanently inscribed (or otherwise attached) to the rotor (or drum) in question, but has NO input into what that minimum (or maximum) measurement is. That is determined by the materials engineers at the manufacturer.
If what you are saying is that ONLY solid rotors should never be machined, you are not even PARTLY right.
Both solid and vented rotors can often be safely machined to within very close to the minimum - and both solid and vented rotors can be caused to warp or pulsate due to that machining - and in a VERY LARGE NUMBER of cases, replacing the rotors with new (either aftermarket or OEM) rotors can be done for anywhere from slightly more to slightly less than the cost of machining.
One instance where machining was definitely cheaper was the pressed together hub/rotor/bearing assemblies as used on the early (1978-82?) Toyota tercel (and several other front wheel drive cars) where, with proper equipment, you could machine the rotors ON THE CAR, while replacement, (or off car machining) was something close to an hour's job with the right tools, and closer to 2 hours without. And these rotors were SOLID, not vented rotors.
What I did as service manager at that time was give the customer the choice - machine on car, or replace - with the pricing stated both ways, and a guarantee that if the rotors thumped within 15 days I would apply half of the cost of machining towards the cost of replacement.. I did not offer off-car machining of those Tercel rotors If they could not be machined within spec, there was no charge for the on-car turning, and they had to be replaced.
Under warranty, any brake pulsation REQUIRED the rotors to be machined - either off car or on car - and the on-car lathe paid for itself several times over in the first year on warranty jobs alone.
And 30 years of ASE certification is peanuts.
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wrote:

After you install new rotors, get the old ones machined, oil them up, put them in the boxes the new rotors came in, and put them on a shelf somewhere. Then you'll have them ready to install the next time you need the rotors machined.
Repeat as needed until the rotors are no longer machinable.
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They were used on my Acura Integra GS-R,and I have them on my Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V.
What else is used to hold on the rotors when the wheel is off?? wouldn't bolts would stick out,interfere with mounting the wheel?
BTW,there's probably two other holes in the rotor "top hat",that those screws thread into for helping push the rotor off the axle flange if it's rusted on. so you don't have to hammer on the rotor to loosen it from the flange,or use a giant "gear puller". :-)
--
Jim Yanik
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On 07/02/11 11:12 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:

On my wife's (and son's) Taurus, *nothing* holds the rotors on when the wheel is off...other than rust of course.
The rotors can't be removed until the caliber bracket is removed, but that's only because the bracket is in the way.
Once the caliber bracket is removed the old rotor just slips off of the hub and the new one slips on in it's place.
I can't recall what other cars I've worked on that had no mechanical means of attaching the rotors, but the Odyssey is the only one I've seen that had screws.

There may be other holes but not for *those* screws. Those screws are too short (1/2"?) to be used to force the rotors off.
Beside, a Phillips head screw wouldn't be the right screw for the job. It would have to be a bolt with a head so you could put some torque on it.

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they have to be long enough to go through the rotor and into the axle flange. thus,long enough to push off the rotor in the other holes. It doesn't take much to break the rotor "top hat" loose.

ISTR it worked for me. it doesn't take much to get it loose. the Civic/Integra Haynes manual said to use two bolts,not the original screws. I might have used the caliper bolts,I don't recall. I know I didn't have two spare bolts that fit.

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On 07/03/11 1:16 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:

That's true, but I don't recall any other counter-sunk holes in the rotor. The holes would need to be counter sunk for the Phillips heads to go through the rotor and contact the flange.
Maybe when I get done with today's projects I'll pull a wheel and see.

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On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 21:29:28 -0500, Steve Barker

Sheesh - don't get THIS subject going again!!!!!!!!
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 12:32:39 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

If he's getting shop prices for new rotors vs turning, turning will be cheaper due to rotor markup. If you do your own work, it might or might not be cheaper to buy new, depending on the car. In my experience new rotors is the way to go. For my GM cars new rotors are $15-40, depending on brand. I've looked at the cheap and the more costly, and they look the same to me, so I go with the cheap. Basically they all come from the same Chinese rotor plants. Both front rotors cost less than a good pad set. Front rotors for my daughter's Mitsu Eclipse cost about $30 each. You have to price by the car. Wouldn't think of cutting old rotors. And I've seen BS advice that brand new rotors should be turned. Can't remember where. No way I'm going to give a new factory rotor to a kid to shave. I just clean the preservative off them. On my Celebrity I put new rotors on when they pulsed due to warping. That was at about 150k miles. I had put about 3 sets of pads on the old grooved rotors, starting at about 50k miles. Worked fine, braked evenly, but of course the grooves got deeper and the last pad set wore pretty fast. Some cars might not tolerate that. If I knew how cheap rotors were I'd have replaced them earlier, then I wouldn't have had to bang them off with a sledge. With cheap rotors now, cutting rotors is a vestige of the past when a rotor cost +$100 in 1980 dollars. To prevent warping torque your tires properly and don't run through puddles with hot rotors.
--Vic
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Pro mechanics always use an impact driver (hammer operated). For $6 or so they cost, anyone can find some use for them. Its been that way for 40 years or more.
Joe
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In

But, beware if they are threaded into cast iron; easy to break off a piece of the cast iron.
HTH,
Twayne`
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On Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:53:49 -0400, "Twayne"

And there is NEVER cast iron used on an aotomotive hub. Cast steel, possibly. You will NEVER break something, other than the cheap screwdriver bit, by using the impact driver to attempt to remove the rotor or drum retaining screws.
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On 07/03/11 7:45 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

re: "other than the cheap screwdriver bit"
BTDT! I'm just glad it wasn't my screwdriver.
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On 07/04/2011 10:45 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I've twisted the heads off the screws before, on older VWs. That makes changing tires a PITA because VWs and BMWs (and possibly other German cars? Not Porsche though) use lug BOLTS not studs.
nate
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A certified mechanic has the specs on rotor thickness and tolerance. They should be aware of how much is removed from resurfacing resulting in the minimal thickness allowed. A thinner rotor does have the potential to warp easier, but not exceeding the minimal thickness will not be that great. Also, not riding the brake or keeping depressed after a stop will retain the heat and add to the potential warping. If people learn to press and release, they will save their rotors and pads much longer.
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The VAST majority of "thumping" rotors are NOT warped - but the press and release IS critical. When disk brakes are used, part of the pad material is transferred to the rotor - basically burnishing it - and after a hard stop, if the pads remain clamped to the rotor, more pad material can transfer to the rotor.. This causes a brake pulsation next time the brakes are used - and can OFTEN be cured by riding the brake for a short time to re-heat and distribute the lining material on the rotor..
In salt areas corrosion often starts under the deposited pad material - particularly the "lumps" and the rotors pit behind the "glaze" - causing permanent thumping - most often too deep to be machined out within spec.
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SBH wrote:

Hmm, Virgin rotors are not that expensive. One main cause of warping is poor torquing of lug nuts. My brakes last at least 120K miles. I only brake to stop moving. Idiots always hurry up and brake, hurry up and brake. I can't understabd them. How many of them are here?
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