Turning Brake Rotors

[Doug Miller]

Ahh, so the "going rate" isn't actually as low as zero to get your rotors turned -- you're doing the work yourself.

So that claim was false too.

[Doug Miller]

Obviously it didn't teach you very much -- if you even have it, which (based on your silly claims) I rather doubt. I have to assume that the guys that wrote my factory service manual know just a little bit more about what should or should not be done on their vehicles than you do.

[clare]

Well, if you are saying it is federally mandated safety standards you are only PARTLY right. Federal law requires the minimums (or maximums)to be permanently inscribed (or otherwise attached) to the rotor (or drum) in question, but has NO input into what that minimum (or maximum) measurement is. That is determined by the materials engineers at the manufacturer.

If what you are saying is that ONLY solid rotors should never be machined, you are not even PARTLY right.

Both solid and vented rotors can often be safely machined to within very close to the minimum - and both solid and vented rotors can be caused to warp or pulsate due to that machining - and in a VERY LARGE NUMBER of cases, replacing the rotors with new (either aftermarket or OEM) rotors can be done for anywhere from slightly more to slightly less than the cost of machining.

One instance where machining was definitely cheaper was the pressed together hub/rotor/bearing assemblies as used on the early (1978-82?) Toyota tercel (and several other front wheel drive cars) where, with proper equipment, you could machine the rotors ON THE CAR, while replacement, (or off car machining) was something close to an hour's job with the right tools, and closer to 2 hours without. And these rotors were SOLID, not vented rotors.

What I did as service manager at that time was give the customer the choice - machine on car, or replace - with the pricing stated both ways, and a guarantee that if the rotors thumped within 15 days I would apply half of the cost of machining towards the cost of replacement.. I did not offer off-car machining of those Tercel rotors If they could not be machined within spec, there was no charge for the on-car turning, and they had to be replaced.

Under warranty, any brake pulsation REQUIRED the rotors to be machined

- either off car or on car - and the on-car lathe paid for itself several times over in the first year on warranty jobs alone.

And 30 years of ASE certification is peanuts.

[Steve Barker]

No, it is just that some places include that in the brake job price. As it should be.

[DerbyDad03]

On my wife's (and son's) Taurus, *nothing* holds the rotors on when the wheel is off...other than rust of course.

The rotors can't be removed until the caliber bracket is removed, but that's only because the bracket is in the way.

Once the caliber bracket is removed the old rotor just slips off of the hub and the new one slips on in it's place.

I can't recall what other cars I've worked on that had no mechanical means of attaching the rotors, but the Odyssey is the only one I've seen that had screws.

There may be other holes but not for *those* screws. Those screws are too short (1/2"?) to be used to force the rotors off.

Beside, a Phillips head screw wouldn't be the right screw for the job. It would have to be a bolt with a head so you could put some torque on it.

[Twayne]

But, beware if they are threaded into cast iron; easy to break off a piece of the cast iron.

HTH,

Twayne`

[Jim Yanik]

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:iupt1s$ka7$ [e-mail]:

they have to be long enough to go through the rotor and into the axle flange. thus,long enough to push off the rotor in the other holes. It doesn't take much to break the rotor "top hat" loose.

ISTR it worked for me. it doesn't take much to get it loose. the Civic/Integra Haynes manual said to use two bolts,not the original screws. I might have used the caliper bolts,I don't recall. I know I didn't have two spare bolts that fit.

[DerbyDad03]

That's true, but I don't recall any other counter-sunk holes in the rotor. The holes would need to be counter sunk for the Phillips heads to go through the rotor and contact the flange.

Maybe when I get done with today's projects I'll pull a wheel and see.

[SBH]

A certified mechanic has the specs on rotor thickness and tolerance. They should be aware of how much is removed from resurfacing resulting in the minimal thickness allowed. A thinner rotor does have the potential to warp easier, but not exceeding the minimal thickness will not be that great. Also, not riding the brake or keeping depressed after a stop will retain the heat and add to the potential warping. If people learn to press and release, they will save their rotors and pads much longer.

[clare]

And there is NEVER cast iron used on an aotomotive hub. Cast steel, possibly. You will NEVER break something, other than the cheap screwdriver bit, by using the impact driver to attempt to remove the rotor or drum retaining screws.

[clare]

The VAST majority of "thumping" rotors are NOT warped - but the press and release IS critical. When disk brakes are used, part of the pad material is transferred to the rotor - basically burnishing it - and after a hard stop, if the pads remain clamped to the rotor, more pad material can transfer to the rotor.. This causes a brake pulsation next time the brakes are used - and can OFTEN be cured by riding the brake for a short time to re-heat and distribute the lining material on the rotor..

In salt areas corrosion often starts under the deposited pad material

- particularly the "lumps" and the rotors pit behind the "glaze" - causing permanent thumping - most often too deep to be machined out within spec.

[Tony Hwang]

Hmm, Virgin rotors are not that expensive. One main cause of warping is poor torquing of lug nuts. My brakes last at least 120K miles. I only brake to stop moving. Idiots always hurry up and brake, hurry up and brake. I can't understabd them. How many of them are here?

[DerbyDad03]

re: "other than the cheap screwdriver bit"

BTDT! I'm just glad it wasn't my screwdriver.

[Nate Nagel]

I've twisted the heads off the screws before, on older VWs. That makes changing tires a PITA because VWs and BMWs (and possibly other German cars? Not Porsche though) use lug BOLTS not studs.

nate

[The Henchman]

I bought new ceramic pads (all four wheels) and new rotors (4) from Autozone with a 4 year warranty for just under $275. Did the work myself, not that hard having a lot of prior mechanic experience. $235 FOR JUST PADS is a ripoff. And additional $59 per rotor turn is equally a rip off. That's $500 friggin dollar for a brake job and not replacing the rotors but turning them. Did the mechanic wear a mask and carry a gun?

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Hyundai Canada wanted to charge me $900, yes seriously, $900 to replace all pads and rotors on my 2009 Sonata. I phoned 3 dealers that I could get too to get quotes. Highest was Milton Hyundai, Milton Ontario at $935. The service manager actually told me that price with a smile. Lowest was $870 at a brand new dealer near my work that last year was a Pontiac dealer.

As it turns out I had severe problems with my rear rotors and pads (Hyundai should issue a recall but they didn't) but the front ones are only 35% worn so I paid $340 to have new rear pads and new rear rotors and emergency brake work done, installed at a National Auto repair company.

Ironically they had to get the OEM pads sent in by couier at 7 pm at nite from Milton Hyundai dealer at a cost of $91.38 (which was included in the price of $340.00)

Myself I did a brake job once on a junky car in my teen years and would like to do it again but my wife won't let me.

[DerbyDad03]

Don't get me started on dealer pricing and shops that only buy parts from the manufacturer.

My wife's '05 Taurus (>100K miles) needs the front "Y" pipe that consists of 2 catalytic converters.

The shop my wife took it to quoted her "About $2200. The part itself is $1900."

I kid you not, here's the link from

where the part is listed for $1923.08.

I then took it to a shop that my son uses.

He had me buy the part from Eastern Catalytic for $290, with a 5 year warranty. If I pay him cash, he'll put it in for under $200. Apparently you have to pull an axle, something I don't want to attempt.

The cat is in my garage...I'll be taking it to him next week.

[The Henchman]

He had me buy the part from Eastern Catalytic for $290, with a 5 year warranty. If I pay him cash, he'll put it in for under $200. Apparently you have to pull an axle, something I don't want to attempt.

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My co-worker had a 2004 or maybe 03 V6 Taurus that needed the engine dis-mounted, to change to rear bank of spark plugs.

He once told me of a three day adventure to change a heater core on a 1990 Gran Marquis or Crown Vic that took 30 minutes on a Chev Celebrity the year before or year after, done by him. He used to turn down his own brake rotors to save a few bucks.

BTW my wife has a very similar problem to yours. Cracked exhaust manifold on a 2003 civic that ins't a problem per se except it could fail an emissions test in Ontario rendering the vehicle environmentally unsafe. The issue is Honda built the catalytic converter into the manifold so that it's all one piece. $1300 job at the dealer they say. People don't wanna weld it, already asked.

[krw]

Yup. My wife's '00 Sable's exhaust system rotted out last Winter. It was a salt car for eight of those years, so it wasn't surprising. The dealer told us it would be over $2000. We went to a local shop, who had a different story. It was only shot from the converter back; $250 out-the-door. Another time they wanted $3000 for a gas tank. I had one put in for $450 ($400 labor and $50 for a junker). The place that did those two jobs now gets all our work. With two >10YO vehicles it's not infrequent.

[DerbyDad03]

>

re: "It was only shot from the converter back"

The next question is: Which converter? ;-)

If I'm not mistaken, the 00 - 07 Sable and Taurus have basically the same setup. A cat attached to each exhaust manifold and then another in the "main" pipe under the center of the car, for a total of 3 cats.

Here's the fun part: The big cat under the car is not monitored for emissions. In fact, it's not monitored at all. So it's very possible for the innards of that cat to break apart so that the cat gets clogged up enough to cause so much back pressure that the hot exhaust gases burn holes through the aluminum intake manifold on top of the engine. DAMHIKT

[krw]

>>

Same car, so I doubt that you're mistaken. ;-) I don't even crawl under cars anymore so I don't know for sure but given what you say, my assumption would be the rear-most cat. $250 doesn't buy much anymore, even from the cheapest garage.

If that happens I guess SWMBO will get her Mustang convertible a little early.