Securing 2x6 To Cinder Block?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Kayak storage on the beach.

Kind of like this:

except replacing the two pavers under each 2x6 with a cinder block.

I would like to secure the 2x6's to the cinder blocks so the boards don't squirm around when loading/positioning the kayak.

I am thinking two blue masonry screws at each contact area. But a little voice is saying "That's fine for just hanging something but in this case they will split the cinder blocks when torque is applied"

How does this sound to Those Who Know?

Push-comes-to-shove, lashing.

Better solutions?

[Don Y]

Google claims page not found.

I've been fastening cinder blocks to "block fences", lately. My prefered method is to drill a hole in the block with a hammer-drill. The hole diameter is large enough to accommodate the *head* of a bolt!

Then, fill the hole with an epoxy (I like "SET-PAC EZ" but there are many others, depending on how strong you need the bond). And, set the bolt head into the hole -- using a jig to keep it standing in the correct orientation (e.g., drill a hole in a scrap piece of lumber just large enough for the THREADS of the bolt; set the board ON the cinderblock with the threads protuding through UP the hole)

Once set, you can position your board (or whatever) on the bolt and secure with a large flat washer and nut.

[gfretwell]

You can use tap cons but they do not really hold that well in concrete blocks. The block is too soft. Squirting some epoxy in the hole and then snugging up the tap con is better.

[Tekkie®]

(PeteCresswell) posted for all of us...

Sorry, that page not found...

Not being able to see your pix I will give estiguess. How much do they weight and how many? Horizontal or vertical? Tapcons (the blue screws) would likely work. Epoxy method by one poster would work but $$$ All thread rod through the block might work. Like most projects a little engineering is involved.

Shame I can't see the pix...

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Tekkie®:

Try now.

First pic:

I think either Picasa has been moving the furniture around or it's been so long since I started a new album that I forgot... either way, that album had defaulted to Private access. Hopefully Public now.

[Vic Smith]

I would attach 2x4's or 1x2's to the boards to straddle the blocks. Bolting or gluing the 2x6's to the blocks makes them hard to move, since you've more than doubled the weight.

[Don Y]

Does this "jig" remain in one place? Or, does it need to be "portable"?

How long are the 2x6's (I assume this corresponds to the width of the kayak?)

[Don Y]

If the 2x6 only needs to be restrained side-to-side, front-to-back, rotate the blocks so the cavities are on top. Then, put ~5x5 inch "nubs" on the underside of the 2x6 to fit within the hollows of the cinder blocks. This will keep the boards from shifting -- but not prevent them from being lifted off the blocks.

Note that you might wish to use "half blocks", instead. I don't doubt they would adequately support the kayak's weight as well as the full blocks -- yet would be half the size/weight (and still have a single cavity that could be exploited by these "nubs")

[Vic Smith]

Best solution yet.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Vic Smith:

It occurred to me, but I had two reservations:

1) Part of the idea of this setup *is* to make it hard to move. Heavier is better and I will apply the fastenings on-site. We're thinking bored kids and the occasional nighttime drunks here....

2) I have zero experience with sand, but it seemed like flipping them hollows-side-up/down would accelerate any tendency for them to sink into the sand.... less surface area...

Right now, my breadboard implementation is using blue screws and it seems solid enough. Installation time comes, I'll remove the screws and flip the blocks over and drill fresh holes.

I think Liquid Nails construction adhesive is also going to come into the picture because experimentation with placing/removing the boat indicates a need for some padding.

Got some of that Norsk multipurpose flooring (the stuff with the scalloped edges so squares can be joined) laying around. It seems pretty durable, so I'll Liquid-Nail it in place for the final setup.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Don Y:

Just the opposite: Harder-to-Move = Better

Haven't arrived at the final width yet. The restraining blocks are the width of the kayak - the ideal being to have it nestle in there and not have any room to wiggle back-and-forth in the wind.

Got to wait for the arrival of some beach wheels to see if I need for the 2x6's to extend out on at least one side to make flipping the hull upside-down on to the 2x6's easier.

[TimR]

Then flip the hollows up, fill with rockcrete or sandcrete, insert a large bolt while still wet. Something like a 5/8 inch bolt six inches long, with the head sunk far enough to let the threaded end through your board, tighten a nut on top.

[Don Y]

But, it's still *temporary*? I.e., you don't want to pour a footing and make a permanent structure out of it?

So, no point in replacing 2x6's with 2x4's (to conserve on weight -- as in "portable")?

I.e., The kayak gets *stored* there? (you're not just *setting* it there while you resurface the underside, etc.)

What sort of weight is involved? Is there merit to leaning the kayak on its side (probably less chance of damage than "tipping it on its bow/stern") and *sliding* something under it; then, lowering the kayak down in place?

[Don Y]

If that were a problem, you could fill the blocks with cement/concrete (with the exception of a "recess" near the top).

I'd be more worried about *blowing* sand piling up against the blocks and kayak as it would effectively be acting as a windbreak.

You can also fasten a small "nailing surface" (screwing surface?) to each block *permanently* and then attach/remove the actual boards from *that*.

Note that any adhesive will fail when the wood starts to rot. You'll end up with splinters of wood adhering to the blocks and the bulk of the lumber flaking off.

You could explore the synthetic wood products (they're sort of plastic like) to see how they might work.

[Don Y]

The problem I've found with (galvanized) bolts used like this is the nut invariably breaks the zinc coating on the threads and, as such, the nut/threads eventually rust. So, I only use this sort of hardware outdoors when I don't EVER intend to loosen the nut!

[Tekkie®]

(PeteCresswell) posted for all of us...

I see it now... Any posted answer will most likely work.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Don Y:

That is what I intend to use once this thing proves itself conceptually.

I was at Home Depot today looking at deck material, but the stuff I saw was kind of thin - maybe 3/4" actual max thickness, and not that wide.

How about treated lumber (the stuff that's green)?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Don Y:

Correct: bring it down in early sprint, take it home when daylight savings time ends.

106#.... I've practiced rolling it sideways on the blocks and that's pretty easy. In fact, I think it might be exactly what you are suggesting with "leaning the kayak on it's side".

Just want to make sure it's still easy when it's on the beach wheels... In fact, I am hoping for it to be easier.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Oren:

Heavy weather is my biggest reservation. I'm up *here* and the kayak is down *there*... 80+ miles away.

But I think that can be mitigated by choosing my season - check out the weather history and limit myself to months when storms are rare. Dunno what months those are yet.... but the data's out there.

OTOH, the owner of the windsurfing shop next to which this is going to happen owes me big-time because I set up and maintain the IP cams that people watch to see how things are on the bay.... so if I leave a key with him and he's actually open when a storm is on the way....

[Don Y]

Yes, the thickness (and price!) was my lament -- I need some 4x12's.

See my "Roof dry rot" thread of 8/19. J Burns suggests treating with a borate solution may give protection. OTOH, you'll also have to deal with salt spray...