Replacing section of lawn sprinkler pipe

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As of 4:30 pm today, I've completely exposed the pipe that's not under the walkway. There are 52" between the walkway and the house, 52" under the walkway, and 17 feet further on to the manifold.
My concern with water blasting to make a tunnel is that it will make a hole larger than the OD of the pipe. Over time, the soil above the tunnel will settle, leading to a depression in the walkway across the width of the walkway.
Thanks to all for your excellent ideas and comments.
Will post again tomorrow afternoon, after the guru tells me his plan and comments on my idea.
Ray
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I recommend going back to the original plan, pull the pavers.
One of the best features of pavers over any other type (concrete, blacktop, etc.) is that it is dead easy to pull them up, repair underneath, and put them back undetectably.
When I lived in Germany my crew did this nearly every day. Unlike the US, where we always had an ugly blacktop patch when we fixed a broken water or sewer line under a sidewalk or street, in Germany it was routine to fix it back to original condition.
Pull the pavers. Dig to the pipe and fix it right. Put the pavers back. Done. If you take care it will look as good as new. You don't even need a high degree of skill if you take your time and get it level.
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Rebel1 wrote:

The pro who over the phone said he would snake a 3/4" pipe under the walkway through the existing 1" pipe just left. After seeing there was only 52" under the walkway, he changed his approach to what I had been considering. (For a much longer distance under the walkway, he would have stuck with his original approach.) Just use a coupler, without clamps that would drag along the soil, to connect the new 1" pipe to the old and pull the new under the walkway by grabbing onto the old; the coil of new pipe would be on the house side. I don't know why the pulling wouldn't cause the coupling to separate, unless someone was also pushing from the other side of the walkway.
He's coming Monday PM to do the job. Original price, $150, to replace 27' of pipe. I tentatively got him down to $125, but he said it was really dependent on the difficulty of going under the walkway.
Ray
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With earth settled and packed in around the old pipe, I doubt it will even move. But then, he's the pro. Let us know how it turns out.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

You are right. I just cut one end of the pipe and tried to move it. Wouldn't budge. Then I soaked the area above the pipe with water, hoping it would act as a lubricant. Still wouldn't budge. (The area of the pipe in contact with the soil is only 208 sq inches, or 1.5 sq feet. Pipe OD=1.25" times 3.14 = circumference x 53" long = 208 sq inches.)
It looks like he'll go with his original idea of snaking 3/4" pipe though the old pipe, unless he's a lot stronger than me or has some gadget that grips the pipe with leverage.
But as I look a little more carefully at the pavers, I could probably get by with removing just 12 of them (6 out from each side of the center)to expose the pipe under most of the walkway. My fear is disturbing the concrete that anchors the edging pavers.

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Let us know, but start a new thread saying "Followup on pipe under sidewalk" or something similar.
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You know, I hate to be critical of anybody's approach. There's more than one way to do ANY job, and I don't want to claim I have any special expertise.
But I really think this is the dumb way to go. We're only talking six feet of path, and an incredible amount of work and kluge jobs just to avoid digging it and putting it back.
It's just not that hard to pull the brick pavers. And it's not that hard to put them back. Six feet? It wouldn't take me more than an hour extra.
And for that, you get the chance to be absolutely sure it is fixed right under the sidewalk. How else are you going to do that? The peace of mind alone is worth the sore back you may have from squatting over the bricks.
Pull them with a pry bar and trowel. Dig. Level. Tamp. A little stone dust. Sweep a little sand between them.
I've seen a lot of jacking under sidewalks, and i bet they cracked them sooner or later about a third of the time. Yours won't crack, but it will bulge, and you'll have a tripping hazard.
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TimR wrote:

Tim,
I don't understand the comment about ending up with a bulge. He would be reusing the same hole that the present pipe is in. Just couple the new pipe to the old, and push (or pull) the old one out as the new one enters the same space to replace it. No bulges, no long-term collapses due to settling.
It's only 52", not six feet (72"). Now that I know the path of the pipe, only 12-17 pavers would be involved. But my main concern is that the two edge pavers are anchored by/in concrete, which I'm afraid to touch. True, the width of each is only about six inches, so tunneling under them and the anchoring concrete would be trivial. The remaining task would be to tamp the removed pavers firmly into the bedding sand. I have until Monday PM to change my mind.
Ray
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Yeah, you might be okay. I've had some recent bad luck with jacking water pipe under a sidewalk and cracking it, I'm a little cautious here.

I didn't realize there was concrete to worry about. My theory was do it right, do it once, and if it was just pavers there's no question in my mind it would be easier to pull and replace. With concrete, there's a chance it was poured on top of, and surrounding, the pipe at the edge. You may want to dig and get a look at it to be sure. If that's the case, there's no way to pull the pipe from the side.
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Rebel1 wrote:

Rebel1 wrote: > As I think more about it, maybe another approach will work. > > There is 5 feet of pipe between the house and the walkway, 5 feet under the walkway, and 12-15 feet more to the manifold. > > 1. I dig on both sides of the walkway until all the pipe is exposed. > 2. I cut and remove the section between the walkway and the house, and cover the exposed end to prevent soil from entering during step 5. > 3. I cut the pipe on other side of the walkway, leaving a 1-foot "stub," and remove the pipe all the way to the manifold. > 4. I connect the replacement pipe to this stub with an ordinary lawn-pipe connector that slips inside both ends. (I pour hot water on the ends of the pipe to make inserting the connector easier.) > 5. I simply push the new pipe under the walkway toward the house and cut off the old section after it emerges. > > Of course there will be the friction of the soil to overcome. But the break is under the walkway, so before starting the above, I'll simply turn on the water for a couple of seconds so the water coming out of the break will act as a lubricant. > > Have I overlooked something? > > Ray
Never underestimate the power of two muscular guys. They were able to snake a new 1" pipe in the same hole as the old one, joining the new with the old with a coupling, with one pushing, the other pulling. They arrived at 2:10 and drove away 2:32. Very impressive.
Thanks, again, to everyone for your comments.
Ray
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Glad to hear it worked out. Maybe you could post a new thread with the just the outcome - you know, so people won't be able to find everything in one place. ;)
R
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That would draw a response, for sure.
I wonder if the same people who use computers to call others idiots. If they would say that in person?
--
Christopher A. Young
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:05:25 -0700, Smitty Two

I'm usually pretty polite. But if I was to meet a guy on the street who said he was the storming moron on a.h.r, I'd most certainly call him an idiot.
Jim
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When mine broke they just pulled a new section through, but I wasnt there to see how it was done. Call companies till you get a real pro that has equipment and knows how to do the job. Cutting the size of the pipe will probably cut flow in half, I would not remove the pavers since they will never be the same, the dirt will settle over time and you will have a depression in the pavers.
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Andy comments:
The 3/4 inside of a 1" for 20 feet will drop the pressure only slightly, depending on your flow rate. You can do this yourself..
If you do, try this:
After you have cut the existing 1 inch pipe at both ends and fed the 3/4 pipe thru it, see if you can rotate the 1 inch pipe. If you can, and it is loose, then you might be able to remove it and put a new 1 inch pipe thru the hole, using the 3/4 inch pipe as a guide. Sort of like running one piece of pipe along the outside of another. If it works, you can then take the 3/4 back out and just bond the 1 inch in...
I've never done this, but , IF the 1 inch pipe is in the right kind of soil, this would be worth trying. At the worst, you still have the 3/4 pipe in place, as before.....
If you try this, and it works, please report back here. I'm sure we'd all like to see if it works....
Andy in Eureka, Texas
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