Putting vinyl over existing floor

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I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor re placed. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?
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On 7/26/2014 9:15 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Depends on the condition of the existing floor, but removing the old can usually insure a better install.
What is the price difference to get the best job? Problems with the new floor may take a couple of years to show up too.
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On Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:49:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

res. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloo r replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing flo or. Who is correct?

+1
If the subfloor is sound and the existing linoleum firmly attached, not coming apart, etc, then tiles can stick fine. If not, then the subfloor needs to be replaced. Did he ask why they said the subfloor needs to be replaced? Read the install instructions for the tiles?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That depends ... If the existing lino is tightly adhered to the subfloor and there are no weak spots or excessive cracking from subfloor joint movement you SHOULD be able to lay over it . Are you sure the existing flooring is "linoleum" ? That product was not in common usage 25 years ago , what you have down is much more likely to be a "cushion vinyl" product or possibly one of the Armstrong solid vinyl products . If CV , at least the top/cushion layers may need to be stripped - this will leave a paper backing layer that may or may not contain asbestos fibers . It was around that period that other reinforcing fibers were beint introduced .
--
Snag



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On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:09:10 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

I agree with the above, except that if it's really 25 years old, it shouldn't have asbestos. Asbestos was banned in the early 80s.
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In typed:

I think it would be hard to say without more information.
When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile), or do you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles?
It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like http://tinypic.com/ might help.
Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the existing floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is there now, the condition, etc.
I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum floor that was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat, with maybe one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of the existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put the new floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also allows the new floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great.
I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was something like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the U.S. comes in 12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I bought a brand of sheet vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made using the metric system and is 4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2 inches, so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and no seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for about 4 years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos somewhere that I could post, but I am not sure.
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You have two basic choices:
1) Lay 1/4" plywood over the linoleum and glue to that. You can use flooring nails but it's better to use screws and fill with wood putty. Nails don't sit perfectly flat. They can show through self-stick or vinyl tile and can crack vinyl composite tile.
2) Pull up the linoleum. If the underlying subfloor is very clean you can use it. If not you'll need to replace it or go over it.
The bottom line is that you need a solid, clean surface to glue to. Method #1 is fine if there isn't a problem with raisning the floor about 3/8", in terms of meeting thresholds, baseboard heat, etc. (Or more if you're using thick tiles. Typical HD tile will add about 1/8" plus plywood. Some more expensive vinyl tile might be thicker.)
typed: | > I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a | > vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable | > flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and | > the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new | > vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct? | | I think it would be hard to say without more information. | | When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile), or do | you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles? | | It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and | subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like http://tinypic.com/ | might help. | | Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the existing | floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is there now, the | condition, etc. | | I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum floor that | was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat, with maybe | one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local | flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of the | existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor | repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put the new | floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also allows the new | floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great. | | I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was something | like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the U.S. comes in | 12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I bought a brand of sheet | vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made using the metric system and is | 4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2 inches, | so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and no | seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for about 4 | years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos somewhere that I | could post, but I am not sure. | |
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On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:29:29 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

And why isn't existing linoleum with an existing subfloor a solid, clean surface that vinyl sheet or tiles can be applied directly to?
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On 07/26/2014 08:15 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If you want it done right, have the old stuff removed.
I had my kitchen re-done 25 years ago and the salesman said the new floor could be placed right over the old.
When the installed got here he refused to do it that way and removed the old floor and used leveling compound to get the surface virtually perfect.
Now 25 years later the floor is still in perfect condition and am glad it was done properly. The dealer did *not* pass on the additional charges to me.
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In wrote:

In my case, taking up the old linoleum floor would have been a big project and would have caused problems and a big mess. That's because the old linoleum was glued down permanently, so taking it up would have left a rough and messed up surface to work with. And, I then would probably have needed to re-do or cover over the subfloor with new plywood. So, I was better off leaving the original linoleum in place and putting the new floor on top of that. Each situation is different, and it sounds like your old floor was able to be taken up without causing any significant additional problems other than needing the application of a little leveling compound.
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

texture will "telegraph" though certain tiles. Is the tile self adhesive? The type of adhesive used may or may not stick to the existing flooring reliably. Most self adhesive tiles are pretty fussy, and some bulk adhesives will work, some won't.
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Our kitchen is "floating" solid vinyl - perimeter glued only. It has one "chemical welded" seam

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installed, and will have had lots of experience removing/replacing it so will know, with virtual certainty, what is going to be involved. It is almost allways possible to salvage the subfloor, but it is seldom economically feasible. Takes more labour and expense to salvage the old than to replace.
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half an inch, which in many cases would be unacceptable (at least to me)
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| Not luan, not 1/4 plywood. Use Ultraply. | http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3/AF3/UltraPly.html |
Looks good. In some cases standard plywood can have voids, which *could possibly* result in a puncture if a spike heel hits it just right. But if decent plywood is available I don't see the need for specialty products. I also wonder about the availability of such a product. I've never noticed it before. Do you buy it at a local lumber yard or HD?
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Do the job RIGHT, so you only have to do the job ONCE, and can be proud of the results. After all done right the job should last perhaps 20 years...
If you cut corners by not removing the old flooring, and 2 years later the new flooring begins to detoriate, will they warranty their now 2 year old work:(
Plus doing the cheap job will likely void all of the manufacturers warranty, since as far as I know, they all state clearly remove all the old....
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| Walk on Ultraply with those spike heals and it's just click click click | with no evidence of marks. Walk on AC pine, fir ply or luan with spikes and | I bet you'll see traces of the trail.
In some cases spike heels will leave marks. It can look like a stampede of spikes over time if the owner is heavy-footed and there's a light source that washes the floor surface at an angle. But that's not the underlayment. The marks are in the soft top layer of some types of tile, like the Armstrong self-stick types with plastic coated, printed paper over a composite pad. If the plywood were actually soft enough to be indented through the tile then the tile itself would be cut, like a hole punch. Those kind of tiles are actually not at all elastic, which would be required to dent the underlayment without cutting the tile itself.
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On Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:09:33 AM UTC-7, Mayayana wrote:

What are women doing in the kitchen wearing spike heels?
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

I feel sorry for them. They can hardly walk.....
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:17:57 -0400, "Mayayana"

it "underlayment grade" It also uses waterresistant or waterproof glue.
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