I will be purchasing of the 15W mini twist lamps (70W equivalent) on Tuesday/Wednesday in 6400K color temp. The lamps are just under 5" tall and about 2 inches wide. They fit ANYWHERE a 60W or 75W incandescent bulb would fit. Similar bulbs at Walmart (although not 6400K) are a bit higher, but under $3 each.
To get Phillips and Osram brands will require selective shopping as the only places I can recall seeing them is at Home Deport and/or Lowes.
I just tested a newly installed 13W mini twist (GE brand - made in china). From flipping the switch to full brightness was about 3-5 seconds. This design is several years old, and the current year models are even faster to turn on.
I highly recommend CFLs for many reasons -- long life, cool operation and significant energy savings -- but I'll be the first to admit the quality of light, albeit good, just isn't the same. In terms of colour rendering and overall appearance, it's pretty hard to beat halogen.
I think my primary problem with CFLs is that the light is, by nature, very diffuse, similar to that of a "soft white" incandescent and I prefer the "pop" and "sparkle" of a clear (as opposed to frosted or coated) incandescent. But as in most things in life, there are trade-offs and this is no different. And, as a rule, we humans are pretty adaptable, so while our initial reaction may not be totally positive, after a few days any shortcomings are largely forgotten.
So my advice would be to stick with a good name brand and pay close attention to the product label. I find a 3,000K colour temperature works best for me (2,700K is a little "too warm" for my liking and anything above 3,500K is simply "too cold"). Look for a high CRI rating (colour rendering index). Most CFLs fall in the range of 82, but some of the cheaper, off-brands come in much lower (they use older, less expensive "halo" phosphors); avoid them altogether. A few have CRIs of 84, 85 or 86, and I'll gladly pay extra for these products because I consider it worthwhile.
Our (collective) preference for a particular colour temperature is something I find truly fascinating. Personally, I find high colour temperatures in a residential application (where light levels are generally pretty low) can make a room appear "cold" and perhaps a bit "dreary". But, in addition to personal taste, some of this would depend upon the colour makeup and material composition of the room (generally speaking, warmer colours and woods tones respond better to warmer light sources).
It is widely understood in the industry that those of us living in colder, northern climates prefer, as a whole, "warm" light sources and those in warmer, southern climates prefer the opposite. It makes sense that if you live in a heating or cooling dominated climate, you would pick a light source that would, psychologically speaking, make you more comfortable.
Well a comment from my brother, who lives in a moderate climate (reasonable balance between heat and cool), he installed a 6400K linear fluorescent tube over their sink and enjoyed the heck out of the way it looked and felt. Disappointed when it eventually burned out and he could only find 2700-3000K lamps to replace it.
OTOH, I live in a cooling dominated climate, short and sandals are standard attire almost the entire year. total heating season costs for natural gas at todays very high prices are under $100. A whiter light for us with Totally white walls and ceiling is GREAT.
I think we're pretty much in agreement. Anyone who has travelled through South America or Asia can confirm almost all fluorescent lighting (CFL and linear) is 4,100K or higher; 5,000K seemed to be the standard and I have to confess it's rather pleasant if your objective is to stay "cool". I'm just not convinced it's as good fit for those of us living here in Canada. :)
The "A19" bulbs - the "usual size" 25, 40, 60, 75 and 100 watt ones - are made in much higher volume on full-time dedicated highly automated high volume production lines. Did you ever notice that these sizes not only cost less than higher wattage bulbs of that basic shape, but also cost less than 15 watt ones of that basic shape and 7.5 watt ones of the same base size? Or that 4-foot fluorescents (32 watt T8 as well as 34 and 40 watt T12) cost less than ones of any other size?
And, 25-100 watt ones sell from shelf space that has a higher turnover - lower cost related to square footage of space to be displayed on - not even counting that 150 watt ones not only sell more slowly at any price, but also take up more display space. But I don't think this is as big a reason as that they don't get made by a highly automated high volume production line that works full time and makes a truckload of packaged lightbulbs with man-hours perhaps few enough to count on one hand!
If you want an idea as to how automated the manufacturing and packaging is: Look at the packages for countries of manufacture! 25-100 watt A10 lightbulbs of "Big 3" brands as well as supermarket store brands of same hour life expectancy and same lumen light output are made in the USA and Canada! 4-foot fluorescents are made in USA, Canada and Europe! 7.5 watt G10 lightbulbs and 7 and 4 watt C7 nightlight bulbs are made in China, but Sylvania 100 watt lightbulbs selling at Lowes for 50 or 95 cents per
Keep in mind where most of the cost of obtaining and operating an incandescent lightbulb is - the electricity to operate it!
Suppose you get a 75 watt incandescent costing $1.50 at a convenience store (as opposed to less per 4-pack at Lowes) and designed to last 750 hours and producing 1210 lumens, and a 100 watt one with the filament being operated less aggressively operated so as to produce the same amount of light - at which point it would have life expectancy in the 10,000's of hours. For the sake of argument, suppose the 100 watt lightbulb with same light output as the 750 hour $1.25 lightbulb lasted forever and was given away for free! (As opposed to 100 watt dollar store, Sunbeam and Polaraoid lightbulbs costing $1 per 3-pack, producing less light than a usual 750 hour 75W lightbulb and with rated life expectancy of 1000 or
Lightbulb $1.50 Nothing (13-30 cents if you shop around)
Electricity (at USA-average residential rate
10 cents per KWH) $56.25 $75.00
Bottom line $56.38-$57.75 plus $75.00 labor of replacing bulb
Any idea now why lightbulbs often have filaments run so aggressively hot? A few decades ago there were even congressional hearings into this matter! Any idea now why compact fluorescents are a better deal, even if you have a situation wheree you need 1 wattage up to get the light you want even if they last only half as long as they do under standardized conditions?
I thought a 150 watt bulb costs a mediumish-low price of a 4-pack of
100-watt ones (maybe $1.75), and a 50-100-150 watt costs much more still - a little below the $3-$3.50 supermarket price of a 4-pack of 100 watt ones.
It appears to me that supermarkets need to make money from 25-100 watt lightbulbs in order to pay the rent on shelf space for the 150 watt ones that need to be displayed because supermarkets would lose customer loyalty without 150 watt lightbulbs, and also to pay for what they have to give out in pre-Thanksgiving prime shopping period in order to build or maintain year-round market share. Ever notice that supermarkets often don't even have 200 watt lightbulbs? Ever see supermarkets with 300 watt ones - even home centers often don't sell those, but many hardware stores do!
I agree with most of this, except 150 watt I would note as incandescent-equivalent and requiring 42-55 watts of compact fluorescent actual wattage. Also, about 5000K being a good color for home use - this is a stark icy cold pure white close to the color of noontime sunlight with unpolluted air in a tropical area - slightly more bluish than "cool white fluorescent".
Yes, there are some that big, and they are big, and I suspect major fixture heating issues - worse even for the bulbs than for the fixtures. Those problems get down to a dull roar when the compact fluorescent wattage is only 26 watts, with light output like that of 100 watt incandescent when things are going well.
I find true only in a couple specific cases:
Illuminating areas so large that you have some need of functiobning of night vision - such as large warehouses or yards outdoors at nighttime - the high color temperature has a spectrum favorable to stimulating night vision. Along with the existance of expectation that "dreary gray" illumination is an improvement over "dreary dim".
At illumination levels around or above the 1100-2000 lux typical of offices and classrooms.
Otherwise, high color temperatures of 4100K and above can have a "dreary gray" effect only partially mitigated by high color rendering index.
Sun at zenith in a pollution-free area at sea level is 5400 Kelvin. Sun at high noon on a June day with especially strong wind flow of incoming especially-low-pullution air in Washington DC is 5200 Kelvin. Sunlight above the atmosphere is 5700-5800 Kelvin.
5000K often appears slightly bluish. Yes, I do see how the sun often manages to have higher color temperature (more bluish) than cool white fluorescent of 4100-4300 Kelvin and such sunlight does not appear bluish, but 5000K fluorescents tend to appear icy cold pure white to slightly bluish. Part is from being in context, and part is from human vision having a known tendency to prefer lower color temperature at lower illumination levels that are typical for use indoors in homes. I, for one, prefer 3500K. Ideally, I surely like for home use 3600-3700K of tungsten being pushed to a hair short of immediate burnout, or carbon arcs which are roughly
3800-3900K - but these are obviously impractical - but next down my favorite list is 3500K, a "whiter shade of halogenlike but still warm", a standard color temperature of triphosphor fluorescent lamps and a few compacts are available in that color. Next standard one higher is 4100K - the "cool white color", and available with high color rendering index, with compacts normally having color rendering index of 82. But that gets to be a bit on the "stark white" side in most home use. And I thought I more than average liked my lights whiter than incandescent!
Keep an eye on what Home Depot is offering. Somewhat often they have promotional 6-packs of 60-watt-equivalent for $10 with no shipping charge! Target has equivalents to 60, 75 and 100 watts at about $15 per 4-pack everyday price. But if you have a more special need or want to get case quantity pricing, chances are the online suppliers are the best deal. But be aware of the color temperature and have this awareness when the bulb is not "the usual color temperature" of 2700, 2800 or 3000 Kelvin (roughly incandescent color)!
But one little catch: The requirement even has some for color - which should be good!
I believe part of the color requirement is color rendering index - which "old tech" cool warm white and warm white would not meet, but compact fluorescents normally meet - unless they are of the types usually seen in dollar stores!
Another part is in overall color. I have heard of a specific requirement of 2700-3000 Kelvin so as to have color temperature like that of incandescents and halogens. Here is where I see the glitch: 3200K or 3500K is disqualified, while not being disqualified is a minor deviation from "incandescent color" in the direction of greenish or pinkish-purplish.
I and probably many others would like compact fluorescents that are whiter than the very orange-yellow shade of incandescents as well as compact fluorescents trying to match them in color. Not the 4100K "cool white color", nor the ice-cold-pure-white 5000K (actually roughly typical of midday tropical sunlight), nor the even-more-bluish 6500K, but a "semi-warm-white" or "whitened-incandescent" like the color of projector lamps and photoflood lamps and movie lights - mid-3000's Kelvin! 3500 is one that compact fluorescents are available in and I do like that one, but it is disqualified from energy-star so much less common than more-incandescent-color-temperature!
Back to most color complaints: It appears to me that most color complaints come from a mixture of lights having noticeably different colors, with one being "the newfangled kind". Especially when one is more greenish and the other is more pinkish-purplish, and typically bias is against whatever is "newfangled" or whatever is more greenish - double whammy if a compact fluorescent should glow with the color of a gas mantle
- which is why I suspect compact fluorescents and warm-color fluorescents in general are more likely to be purplish-pinkish than greenish.
Now for good color easily-available compact fluorescents:
If you don't like pinkish-purplish, then favor lower wattages, and types with integral electronic ballasts, and especially spirals since those tend to have integral electronic balasts and have some brands doing well in that color area. I have seen good results with Philips and Commercial Electric and Feit Electric in this area. Philips should be good for more-starts duty. Commercial Electric equivalent to 60W incandescent (14 watts) is even slightly more greenish-yellow than incandescent in my experience - but that could make them look ugly if mixed with others or even with incandescents if your are touchy about that - maybe best to use only the same model for every socket in your dining room fixture!
If you don't like greenish and are so greenish-phobic that you don't mind a slight bit of pinkish-purplish, then good would be:
Sylvania 3000K models - not only slightly whiter than most, but also in my experience slightly pinkish-purplish and I suspect the reason is "greenish-phobia". These could look a little harsh in color by being a bit whiter and pinkish-purplish, but color rendition is actually good!
Higher wattages, especially 26 watts or more. Keep in mind heat issues, especially in small enclosed fixtures and recessed ceiling fixtures!
Philips SLS of at least 23 watts. Lower wattages of Philips SLS I find to approximate incandescent well and higher wattages I dind to be very slightly pinkish-purplish.
Spirals of size unusually compact for their wattage (more when wattage is 19 watts or more) tend to be a bit more pinkish and less greenish.
PL-13/F13TT, PLC-13 or 26 / F13 or 26 DTT with magnetic ballasts in my experience tend to have their deviations-from-incandescent towards pinkish rather than greenish. Exception: Osram F13DTT/27K, an older model, appears to me dead-on incandescent rather than pinkish.
6400K raises a red flag - I have seen that more than anywhere else as a claim of "dollar store" compact fluorescents! I have *BIGTIME* experience with these *consistently* having brightness about or somewhat less than that of 40 watt standard incandescents, even when claimed incandescent replacement is as high as 150 watts, even when nomimal wattage is 36 watts (should be good for well-outshining a 100 watt incandescent or halogen), even when claimed lumens exceed 1300 (a "standard" 75 watt incandescent is
1190 or so).
Also, I have seen 6400K dollar store ones have color over a range of
6500 to 8000. Be aware that 6400, 6500 and 8000 are all minor variations of "bluish icy cold slightly-bluer-than-pure-white" with higher color temp. being more-bluish.
Often but not always I see 6-packs of compact fluorescents at Home Depot for $10.
I think these are good places to get such things - as well as Target. Even when a 4-pack costs $15, even in a severe bad case where a 15 watt compact fluorescent dies as quickly as a 60 watt incandescent, at USA-average residential electricity rate one saves $4.50 per bulb!
Non-radiant heat will be about the same as or a little more than that of a 100 watt incandescent based on my temperature rise measurements of a fixture with various bulbs - extrapolated from a 42 watt compact fluorescent heating a globe very slightly worse than a 60 watt incandescent does. The 65-watt CF could even heat a fixture almost as badly as a 150 watt incandescent, due to incandescents having heat balance shifting towards radiant from convected/conducted as wattage increases throughout the range of using the traditional argon-nitrogen gas fill in incandescents!
Of course, a 65 watt CF roughly matches to somewhat exceeds the light output of a 200 watt incandescent!
"Standard" 150 watt incandescent - about 2900 lumens "Standard" 200 watt incandescent - about 4000 lumens
Icy cold bluish daylight color about that of overcast sky, and I find overcast sky to be more like 6000 even. Got anything in the 3400-3900 K range - like carbon arcs, movie lights, projector lamps, incandescent lamps overvolted to a hair short of immediate burnout? Got anything nominally 3500K - too white for "Energy Star" due to deviating towards pure white from incandescent, but a nice "semi warm white" or "whitish incandescent" or "whiter-shade-of-halogen" color"? If not, then I would rather take an incandescent approximation in the 2700-3000K range for use in my home!
In article , I, Don Klipstein wrote with a calculation error to correct:
I did find need to correct myself! Go down about a page or two to see figures that I screwed up and my corrections - with life extension of incandescents remaining a losing proposition! 2 lines a page or two down have numbers I need to fix by a factor of 10 - but should one need to stick with incandescents, ones 60 watts or more are most economical with filament design to run aggressively hot to the point of shortening life to the 750-1,000 hour range!
CORRECT FIGURES: $5.62 $7.50
CORRECT TO: $5.75-$7.13 plus $7.50 bulb change labor
Heat output is only reduced by a factor of 4 and that I find to be a bit on the optimistic side - not a factor of 10! Oh yes, the light produced in a home mostly does become heat in the home! Figure mostly 97 to 99.99 percent of electrical energy going into a lightbulb becoming heat materializing in the home! Compact fluorescents are only 20 to optimistically 25% efficient at producing light, although with a spectrum favorable to human photopic vision and can be 4 times more efficacious that way than incandescents (5-7% efficient and with a somewhat less luminously-efficacious spectrum) - but that means 75-80% efficient as heaters in addition to the light that does not make it out the windows!
I surely see the good points of compact fluorescents, but I also see a lot of resistance to them with a significant portion of that resistance due to failure to meet some exaggerated claims! I surely see that the truth and nothing more optimistic than the truth is good enough to sell compact fluorescents! Customers that are not disappointed will be repeat customers and pass on good word of mouth!
I surely think that sales of 23 watt compact fluorescents will increase if they are advertised as meeting/exceeding 75 watt incandescent and 100 watt extended-life incandescent as opposed to being often found half a step short of the 1710-or-so lumens of a "usual" 100 watt incandescent!
Typical CF is 2700K with color renderingh index of 82, and "typical old tech fluorescent" is nominally 4100K but in some practice as high as 4300K and with color rendering index of 62.
Although I complain about 2700K as excessively yellow-orangish, (and I have mostly the same complaint about incandescents) I would not overshoot to so much as 4100K, let alone some even higher color temperature that looks good at the 50,000-100,000 lux of middday tropical sunlight but appears icy cold pure white to bluish and has a "dreary gray effect" at typical home illumination levels only halfway fixed by good color rendering index and good spectrum.
I find that 3500K is good, a bit above 3500 is better, but 4100 is "more like stark white" at typical home illumination levels or even double that despite being a bit more orwenge-yellow than typical noontime springtime sunlight in Philadelphia, and 5000-plus I find to be icy cold and dreary in most home use! I would take 2700 kelvin color over 4100 kelvin color for home use, even though I really like mid-upper 3,000's! 5,000 or higher I see as even worse than 4100!
3-foot is uncommon enough that I see some opportunity to question brand, wattage, party number, etc? If I needed that much rework, I would get a fixture to take the lower-cost 4-footers such as F32T8/835! Meanwhile, a 50-50 mix of 3000K and 4100K should achieve about
3400-3500K (colors spread out more closer to about 1500K, explaining
50-50 3000/4100 being less than 3550). I have been saying that mid-3000's is good and higher is not as good in most home use as mid-upper 3,000's.
Can you name a 6400K linear fluorescent or a 2700K one?
I have heard of 6500K linears and 3000K ones, but I am seeing some stories that need to be set straight and coming from someone that I see as advocating high color temperatures that I see as usually appearing in home use icy-cold and/or dreary-gray.
I have sweated in summertime in San Francisco - where summer is the cool season after spring and before fall, where people can wear sweaters on the streets at lunchtime or midafternoon in July, and where Mark Twain complained about summer there being chillier than winter anywhere!
But even in Philadelphia in July, 6,000's Kelvin fluorescents I find to be icy dreary and unable to appear sunny-bright short of at least 5,000 lux, and I prefer even then low-4,000's kelvin color since that can appear sunny-bright at 2,000 lux or somewhat less. And I would rather have a living room with 400 lux to be a warmish 3500K than "a bit dim" at 6500 K with 1000 lux at 6500 K appearing only a minor improvement over 400 lux atv 6500 K! I surely hate lighting appearing a bit dim with double saying same story than lighting of a homey warmish color in Philadelphia in a July heatwave and the air conditioner broken down!
I have visited Canada (Toronto specifically) and found office and retail fluorescent lighting there to be the same as the usual in "The States" - nominally 4100K.
I would beware that CRI claimed slightly higher than 82 I would consider likely to be dependent on "same active ingredients" as T8 fluorescent lamps that have achieved same color rendering index. The difference - the narrower tubing enhances the mechanisms that produce the spiky mercury spectrum and to a slight extent supresses the phosphor output due to supressing the shortwave UV wavelengths of mercury best-favored by tubing 1 to 1.5 inches in diameter.
Bottom line - if claimed color rendering index of a compact fluorescent exceeds 82 but does not exceed 86, I would discount to 82 until I see a spectrum giving evidence otherwise.
If claimed color rendering index is so high as to be more like 90-plus, then I give some chance of truth - especially if the lumens are on the low side - that allows "broad spectrum" to compute, although my experience is that this is usually not the story, not even in a majority of cases when "full spectrum" is claimed of compact fluorescents. But I surely like most fluorescent lighting with color rendering index of 82, since the color distortions of triphosphor fluorescent with CRI in the low-mid 80's tend to be mostly in the direction of "colors more vivid". CRI of 90-plus I have found to have mostly color distortions in the opposite direction (duller especially with reds, pinks, oranges and greens) even though milder than with old-tech fluorescents distorting in that bad direction and worse with CRI often 62 or 53!
In the Walmart store I visited, 100W gets at least two full shelves, multiple brands offered, and is parked at eye level. 75W, 60W are in the same general area, again multiple shelves, mutiple brands. As I recall, at least two full units of rack space, floor to top shelf were devoted to the 60W-75W-100W incandescents
150W had 4 TOTAL bulbs in the store partially hidden by some literature hanging from a vertical riser. Hanging right above them were the compact spiral CFs
We are in agreement on specs 150W incandescent and 40-42W CFs are rated for approx same light output about 2600 lumens. Our color preferences are different. I live is a HOT climate, so a COLD appearing light with bluish overtones is psychologically GREAT!!
See my other comments, this MONSTER of a lamp has specialized usage for large area lighting in warehouse/box store lighting and therapeutic applications. I am NOT advocating its use in normal residential applications. It won't screw into a standard fixture as it has a Mogul base. Mogul bases are common in the lighting systems used in the big box stores, especially if they use something other that linear fluorescents.
Color temps are important, we agree. We disagree on specific applications, in part because of where we live. A cool light is a psychological boost in a HOT climate. I wear shorts, sandals, and tee shirts YEAR ROUND. Natural fiber clothing is ALWAYS preferable because it wicks away perspiration MUCH better.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.