PhosFree for pool water

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We've had a long, hot dry summer, but finally got some rain last night, and I've got a minor algae bloom a few places on the walls and bottom.
I've used PhosFree for a number of years, and have essentially put an end to algae problems. But I hadn't used it this year since the water tested low at the beginning of the summer.
So I took a water sample in, and the store guy said the phosphate level was about 100, which was ok, and I didn't need to lower it further. But if that's the case, I wonder why algae is growing.
I'm sure I've used more chlorine than usual this year, so my stabilizer level is probably a bit high, but even so, it seems to me that after superchlorinating and vacuuming the algae to waste, I need to follow with a liter of PhosFree to take the phosphates down to near zero. (19k gallons).
Then, as I usually do, at the end of the season, drain the pool down about half way so that when refilled the stabilizer level will be back down to around 50. Then I have to check again for phosphates in case there was some in the fill water.
The alternative would be to do the big drain-down now, refill, and add PhosFree. But then I would be adding lots of chlorine, and stabilizer, during the final month of the season, and that's gonna screw things up for next summer.
Well, anyway, what I need to know is whether I'm right about needing to get the phosphate level down, to stop the algae from coming back. It seems to me if the phosphate level is low enough, algae shouldn't grow.
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I would, but I'm running a sand filter and the phosfree seems to help the filter. Also, I don't see any problem bringing the phosphates down to zero. Besides that, Phosfree is supposed to be maintained weekly and I'm surprised the salesman wasn't trying to sell you some for that reason alone.
BTW: 1 liter of PF (34oz) seems a lot to me if your phosphates are already at 100ppm. Take a sample to the store and ask how much PF to use to bring it to zero. No reason to use more than necessary.
I used 16 oz PF when my pool was at 200ppm. (10.5k pool) At 200ppm The guy at the store told me my phosphates were low and to only use 12 oz. If you're at 100ppm probably 16oz and test again then use the weekly maintenance dose.
If you're not using a sand filter I'm really not sure but bringing your phosphates to 0 seems to be a no brainer. The reccomended level of < 250ppm is WAY too high IMO. They don't have to keep our pools clean.
Jim
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JimT says...
> BTW: 1 liter of PF (34oz) seems a lot to me if your > phosphates are already at 100ppm. Take a sample to the > store and ask how much PF to use to bring it to zero. No > reason to use more than necessary.
> I used 16 oz PF when my pool was at 200ppm. (10.5k pool) > At 200ppm The guy at the store told me my phosphates > were low and to only use 12 oz. If you're at 100ppm > probably 16oz and test again then use the weekly > maintenance dose.
Well, at nearly 20k gallons, 1 liter of PF would drop the phosphate level by 300 ppb. So you're right that I wouldn't need that much, assuming the guy did the test right. So I'll start with half that and then test again. That will also help with the sand filter, because a liter really takes the pressure up a lot.
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Check the pH of the water. You can have great chlorine levels, but if the pH is too high or too low, then the Chlorine doesn't kill anything. It's only effective within a small range. Rain can bring in alkaline or acidic material carried by the air, changing the pH of your pool within a brief time.
Micajah

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He said he took a sample to the store. They always check PH.
Jim
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But he didn't say what they told him about the PH. It's true that the higher the PH, the less effective the chlorine is, even if it's still in the acceptable range.
If it were me and the water balance is otherwise OK, I'd just deal with the algae directly by adding some algaecide. Once you have it and depending on the type, it can take a very high level of chlorine to kill it.
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But he didn't say what they told him about the PH. It's true that the higher the PH, the less effective the chlorine is, even if it's still in the acceptable range.
If it were me and the water balance is otherwise OK, I'd just deal with the algae directly by adding some algaecide. Once you have it and depending on the type, it can take a very high level of chlorine to kill it.
=== Not to be argumentative but, if they tested it and didn't tell him it was off, what would be the point in testing?
The algae may already be dead. After a bloom the algae dies and then the little carcasses keep floating in the pool mucking up the water. The PF aids the sand filter and gets out those microscopic single celled dead algae out and prevents further blooms. Anyway, that's the way I think it works. Whatever it does it works amazingly well. If you use PhosFree and the maintenance dose your algae problem no longer exists. :-) It also helps to make the water incredibly clear.
Jim
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JimT wrote:

PF removes the phosphorous from the water, which is a necessary mineral for life, causing the algae to die. it doesn't do anything to help the filter remove algae. i think you want an anti-floculant for that.
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No. I familiar with both. PhosFree "appears" to act like a flocculant filter aid
http://www.parpool-spa.com/Page/PoolCare/PhosFree.html
"PhosFree contains a rare mineral called lanthanum that when added to your swimming pool through the skimmer causes a thin film on your pool's filter media (sand, DE or Cartridge) which then physically removes phosphates from the water."
If you had used the product you would have noticed the pressure increase. Any pressure increase means the water is being forced through the filter at a higher pressure because the filter is trapping more particles.
Regardless, it works to make water clearer. I'd say if the PF alone isn't clearing the water the operator could let the pool settle overnight and vacuum. If that didn't work the operator could try a flocculent. YMMV. FWIW: I'm using a sand filter and that has been my experience.
Jim
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He didn;t say anthing at all, one way or the other, about what the PH was. Even if the PH is 7.8, the chlorine is significantly less effective than if it's 7.2.
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He didn;t say anthing at all, one way or the other, about what the PH was. Even if the PH is 7.8, the chlorine is significantly less effective than if it's 7.2.
==== First....Do you own a pool? Sorry, but I get involved in these conversations with people that don't know the first thing about pool maintenance.
Assuming you do: Why do you take your water to the store to be tested? What are the two most common tests? What levels are acceptable?
Jim
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Pfft. You posted questions about your cloudy water last month. Before the thread died you thought you knew more about pool chemistry than anyone on the planet, much of which is (still) wrong.

He's right, nitwit: http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/pools/disinfection-team-chlorine-ph.html -----
- gpsman
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Pfft. You posted questions about your cloudy water last month. Before the thread died you thought you knew more about pool chemistry than anyone on the planet, much of which is (still) wrong.

He's right, nitwit: http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/pools/disinfection-team-chlorine-ph.html -----
- gpsman
== Nobody said anyone was wrong..... genius.
Jim
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Pfft. You posted questions about your cloudy water last month. Before the thread died you thought you knew more about pool chemistry than anyone on the planet, much of which is (still) wrong.

He's right, nitwit: http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/pools/disinfection-team-chlorine-ph.html -----
- gpsman
==== BTW:
Who goes to the CDC for pool info?
http://www.ehow.com/about_4613094_ph-levels-pools.html
7.2 - 7.6 is the acceptable level for PH. The human eye is around 7.35 and that is ideal.
Jim
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Look, you said you didn't want to get argumentative. Yet, here you are doing exactly that. If you read his post, he never said anything about what the store told him about the PH of the water or any other test other than phosphates. In fact, he even speculated what his stabilizer level was, so apparently the store people didn't tell him what the CYA reading was. If you've been to the typical pool store, you should know that in many cases, the kids and nitwits that they have handing out advice are not particularly bright, correct or thorough. YOU are speculating about what his PH reading was. All I did was point out that if it's on the high side, even if still in the normal range, it will substantially decrease the effectiveness of the chlorine. That is a basic fact of pool chemistry. Do you disagree with that? If not, what exactly is your problem?
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Look, you said you didn't want to get argumentative. Yet, here you are doing exactly that. If you read his post, he never said anything about what the store told him about the PH of the water or any other test other than phosphates. In fact, he even speculated what his stabilizer level was, so apparently the store people didn't tell him what the CYA reading was. If you've been to the typical pool store, you should know that in many cases, the kids and nitwits that they have handing out advice are not particularly bright, correct or thorough. YOU are speculating about what his PH reading was. All I did was point out that if it's on the high side, even if still in the normal range, it will substantially decrease the effectiveness of the chlorine. That is a basic fact of pool chemistry. Do you disagree with that? If not, what exactly is your problem?
-== I don't have a problem but apparently you do.
The OP didn't ask about PH he asked about PF. Look at the header
That's the "basic" fact. He stated he had his water checked. You and the other "geniuses" are the ones assuming the OP doesn't have a clue.
I'm the one giving the OP he credit for being able to use the internet and the ability read and write.
Read the question and then formulate a "educated" response. "If you're going to make a guess, make it an educated guess." <g>
What do you take your water to the pool store for? Do you let the "nitwits" test it and take their word? Did the OP state: "I took my water to the nitwits..."?
You're making a HUGE assumption that all pool store operators are nitwits AND the OP is one also.
Besides that, if you are a pool owner, you really should know that your PH and chlorine can be spot on and you can still have algae blooms. I had the EXACT same problem a month ago. PF took care of the problem. Your PH isn't going to stay stabile anyway unless you have your pool under a dome and you never use it.
I hope that helps you to understand. :-)
Jim
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No shit Sherlock. But you still won't acknowledge the basic pool chemistry fact, which is that the higher the PH, the less effective chlorine becomes. Less effective chlorine, the more likely algae becomes. Capiche?

I never assumed anything about the OP. Now it appears you're not only at war with me, but others who have posted too. Who appointed you the only authority allowed to speak?

You can assume anything you want. But don't jump on me for pointing out that if PH is higher, then chlorine is less effective. You don't know what his PH reading was.

I don't take my pool water to the store to be tested because I have a real Taylor test kit and the knowledge to use it instead of handing it that responsibility over to a 17 year old.

The only one making assumptions here is you. You've assumed some level of PH without the poster ever stating it. I never stated that all the people you encounter in pool stores are nitwits. But I've seen plenty of people post reports that are consistent with my own experience that there are plenty of them out there that are.

Go back and read my first post, which you objected to. I clearly stated that I would use an algaecide.

If you're PH swings widely, maybe you don't know as much as you think you do. And if it does move, that doesn't mean you should ignore it.

Yes, I understand, you;re an idiot.
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I didn't call you any derogatory names at all during our conversation.
I do understand what you are talking about. You're just wrong. Have a nice day. :-)
Jim
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No, you just went on the attack right from the start and you sarcastically called me and the others who gave advice "geniuses" because you apparently think you are the only one who should give any advice or make comments. Through the entire discussion, you never denied that my point was correct. The higher the PH is, the less effective chlorine will be. Moving from 7.8 to 7.2 makes a substantial difference. Apparently you didn;t know that and for some reason, you feel that giving that tip, was way off base and improper because YOU prefer to assume that his chlorine is at 7.2 without him ever stating what it was. You just "know" it must be so, because he took his water to a pool store and didn't say anything here about the results other than the phosphate issue. That's real sharp thinking.

So now you're claiming that chlorine is just as effective regardless of PH? Figures.

And you go on your merry way, keep posting your silly smiley faces. keep taking your pool water down to the local pool store, Listen to what they tell you, buy all the chemicals they recommend. I'll test my own water with my Taylor test kit, save the travel time and the sales pitch for all the expensive chemicals because I know what I'm doing.
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No, you just went on the attack right from the start and you sarcastically called me and the others who gave advice "geniuses" because you apparently think you are the only one who should give any advice or make comments. Through the entire discussion, you never denied that my point was correct. The higher the PH is, the less effective chlorine will be. Moving from 7.8 to 7.2 makes a substantial difference. Apparently you didn;t know that and for some reason, you feel that giving that tip, was way off base and improper because YOU prefer to assume that his chlorine is at 7.2 without him ever stating what it was. You just "know" it must be so, because he took his water to a pool store and didn't say anything here about the results other than the phosphate issue. That's real sharp thinking.

of PH? Figures.

keep taking your pool water down to the local pool store, Listen to what they tell you, buy all the chemicals they recommend. I'll test my own water with my Taylor test kit, save the travel time and the sales pitch for all the expensive chemicals because I know what I'm doing. === If you took that as a sarcastic attack you lack the self confidence to effectively argue. I let you believe you are right and you have my pity.
Have a nice day. (-:
Jim
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