(OT) Car coolant question

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you what is wrong. It says the right bank is lean, or the left bank is rich, or the left bank front O2 sensor is slow, or reading low.. It is up to the mechanic to KNOW what will cause those problems. And how to find / eliminate the possibilities without throwing the parts department at it. Do you have a bad injector? or a vacuum leak? Or is the engine burning oil?
Or the scanner tells you you have an intermittent misfire. Or a misfire on cyl 5. What is causing the misfire? A bad plug, a bad wire, a bad coil, a vacuum leak, a bad injector, a bad valve? At least you know to look at #5 cyl, not 1, 2, 3, 4, or 6 (or 7 or 8) It is the combination of codes and/or other symptoms, together with the history of the vehicle, and knowing what goes wrong on certain vehicles.
You did not have that ability on the older cars - Yes, you could hook a scope to it - and if you knew how to read both the primary and secondary patterns, the vacuum guage, the dynamic compression test, etc it COULD give you most of the information. But not everyone had the money and space to have an analyzer scope. Every DIY shadetree mechanic can afford a basic OBD2 scanner, and it will fit in the glove compartment (or even the ash tray)
The mid-year stuff - electronic controls but pre 1996 (pre OBD2) every vehicle needed it's own specific scan tester - some gave lots of good information, and others were almost useless. Some would blink the CEL when you connected the right combination of pins/wires on the test plug to spell out the code.
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In trying to fix a 1995 olds with OBD 1.5 , had troubles. First was question on reading the computer. Later found it faulty, replaced with junk yard $35 unit. I had trouble trying reading first computer as well as shops. Intermittent problem giving codes. Sure the intake gaskets first needed replaced. Intermittent. Giving crank sensor codes. Still problem. Turned out to be intermittent spark control module. The sensors go to the spark control module.
I bought OBD 1.5 USB plug in, but had trouble communication. Never got to test again after computer was replaced. Shop took over.
Pre 1995 gm vehicles had less computer info. To add confusion, there was more than one version of OBD 1.5
Greg
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wrote:

Actually, I could read MORE information from my 1988 Chrysler and 1990 Aerostar than I can get off the new OBD2 vehicles - but it was raw data that I had to interpret by myself. I could read the value of every sensor - but the scanner had no idea what was correct, or within range, so it didn't give a code saying "check this"

non-standards that were machine specific that fell loosely into OBD1 - then there was draft OBD2 or what we in the trade called "pre-2" - basically just GM trying to get a jump on the technology, then OBD2. Anything before the full OBD2 of 1996 was a bit hit or miss. My Auto X Ray scanner has 5 lead kits -OBD2,OBD2 manufacturer specific, GM, Ford and Chrysler. Each of the imports had their own "flavour" as well - I didn't bother buying any of them The "manufacturer specific" was for 1995 GM vehicles with OBD2 plugs that were not fully OBD2 compliant.
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Good vid for tech geeks. What, a couple hours reading meters, flowcharts, schematics, tracing wires, thinking, speculating, thinking. All to find an obviously hosed wiring harness that should have been evident after about 10 minutes of inspection. That's what I do first with all electrical faults, unless experience tells me otherwise. Especially if I see a leaky valve cover gasket has soaked a harness with oil. BTW, you can throw a cam sensor, crank sensor and TPS at that engine for less than $75, and about an hour labor. Not saying do that, but it's a viable strategy for a DIY'er. All these sensors and other electrical components degrade over time, so new is usually best. My wife's Lumina 3100 just threw a PO300, was chugging when hot, and she smelled hot metal. BTDT with other 3100's. Bad coil or spark module. Didn't even consider finding out which coil pack, or if it was the spark module. Put all new in. Done, finished. I can't believe he even considered replacing the ECU without checking the wiring first. He probably knew the harness was bad earlier than he said but held that so he'd have a good vid. Probably too good to make that mistake. But his purpose is to show scanner troubleshooting, whether it's needed or not. Good catch for geeks knowing the ECU sources 12v to cam and crank on a shared circuit. But that engine is basically a no-brainer for a moderately competent DIYer since parts are cheap to throw at it. Anything but an ECU fault or a hidden harness short is no big deal.

That's why I think the guy making the vid didn't charge for all the "diagnostic" time he put into it. ODB codes are great, and either pinpoint the problem, or give you a starting point

And which "real" car can't suffer degraded wiring due to neglecting an oil leak?
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<<...snipped...>

What engine does your Caprice have? I think by 89 the 305 and 350 had both been switch to TBI but maybe a 307 was still available with a carb.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:01:23 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org (Larry W) wrote:

It's the 307 Olds engine. The body is a station wagon, and they seem to have always used those engines in the wagons. Station wagons are hard to find anymore, so I try to keep it in good shape. I've been offerred some pretty good money for it, but I'd rather keep it since it's so reliable, and I like the STW body. This was the last year they had a carb. It has some electronics in the carb, there are 2 plugs on it. Before this one, I had an 86 Olds STW. The body was almost identical, the engine was the same, except only one elec. plug on the carb. I still have that car for parts, but had to quit driving it when the frame broke and was too rusty to weld, not to mention the tranny was dying. The engine in that one still ran well, and aside from taking the electronic ign module off of it, and the starter, it's still complete.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:46:45 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

My son had a mid to late '80's Chevy wagon with the Olds engine. Bought it used about in 1999 or 2000. There was a batch of those 307's made with soft cylinder walls, and he got one. My mechanic told me this, and he had seen more than one. With about 70k miles on it the blow-by was so bad the cat got plugged and my son had to hole it with a screwdriver to get down the road. Since my son really liked the car, I had my mech put in a new GM Target 307. Same warranty as GM factory. Cost me about $2500. My mech said it's a real good engine except for that bad batch. A couple months later the car was stolen, and never recovered. No insurance. Book value was real low. Think it had a quad. I remember my mech told me it would cost more if the blow-by had screwed it up, but he got it all running sweet.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:12:08 -0600, Vic Smith

This is the first I heard about this problem. The one thing about them, they never have the best power on hills, and that was disgussed in a STW discussion group I found on the web some years ago. They said it was because the shape of the cam, which made for better gas milage, but a little low in power. I live in a hilly area, so at times it is a bit doggy, but I've had this car for many years. I'm just used to it, and take the trans out of OD on those hills, and take my time getting to the top on the real big hills.
Too bad yours was stolen, bet it would still be running.
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:02:56 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Yet another troll from HomoGay.
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On Jan 26, 7:32pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yeah, sure looks like it. 5 mins to move it on his property? In 5 mins you could go 2.5 miles at 15mph.
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wrote:

Correction, make that 1.25 miles, but the same troll principle applies.
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True, but some area's like around exhaust valve seats become very hot very rapidly without aggressive coolant circulation. Oil circulation alone will provide little if any cooling around these 'hotspots'.
Even full of coolant without circulation, these area's will quickly boil.
Personally, were it mine, I'd limit dry runtime to 20 seconds or less, and then only under light loads. If I 'had' to move it further, I'd give it 10 or 15 minutes between runs.
Keep in mind that even during normal operation, said hotspots are 'pushing' localized thermal shock limits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_shock
Erik
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If a tree falls in the woods, and everyone has it killfiled, did it make a sound?
What is the sound of two killfiled posters, posting?
Is this an exclusive club, or can just anyone be killfiled by Home Guy? Do I need to wear a tux and bowtie to be killfiled?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Posting links that prove himself wrong and doesn't even realize it. So, yeah, no surprise he has me in his kill file. I'm in good company there. And I think I'll join in the fun in the other thread now too....
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On Jan 27, 8:40am, "Stormin Mormon"

I don't know. But just for grins, this killfiled poster will bring up something no one else has apparently thought about. Cooling the engine isn't the only function of coolant. It also lubricates the water pump. And I'd be a lot more worried about running that dry for 2 mins, than I would be about damaging the engine. But then he needs 5 mins to go across his vast estate..... I wonder if that's at 15 mph or 75? Most of us with connected brain cells only take radiators out of cars where they are not 5 mins away from where they can be left for a few days to begin with.
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 05:54:52 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

The problem with some here is that they take everything so literally. He probably just said 5 minutes to be conservative.
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On 1/27/2013 3:33 PM, Doug wrote:

I agree with you. For instance I called for a concrete delivery and the guy wouldn't accept "enough for a sidewalk" and actually insisted on how much I wanted. Then he asked me when I wanted it and he would not accept "next week". I just can't understand it...
Words mean something. Especially when the only form of communication being used is words. Clearly none of us can see or know the OPs situation so the only thing to go with is what was conveyed.
Five minutes is a long time so the only reasonable assumption is that that time was chosen for a reason. I pictured maybe he needs to start the car and back down a long driveway, wait for traffic and then pull into another driveway or a space across the street maybe doing some more maneuvering along the way.
If the OP had said say "30 seconds" then a reasonable person might assume a simple back out of a space and off the edge of the driveway or something similar operation.
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wrote:

I just tossed out an approximate number. It's been moved, took me just seconds over 2.5 minutes. Everything is fine. Nothing even seemed to get hot, no steam, etc.... Was about 1/2 mile and into the garage. It was about 20deg outdoors, so it takes longer to get stuff hot.
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Be interesting to see if he's got us both killfiled.
If so, I can go back to watching my gerbils have sex.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I don't know. But just for grins, this killfiled poster will bring up something no one else has apparently thought about.
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snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote in news:sbr8g8pv719vtlr5i8l4afmf4e12c17tht@ 4ax.com:

Absolutely not. You WILL fry something in the top end, either valves or rings, possibly both.
If you must move the car, tow or push. Do NOT run this engine.
--
Tegger

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wrote:

luck.
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