need hot water FAST

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Hello,
I bought a newly built house 3 years ago. At that time, I asked the builder why it took so long, 3-4 minutes, before hot water came out of the faucets when you first turned them on. He said that was the standard wait.
I'm annoyed now that I have to wait so long for the hot water to come out. The temperature of the water is fine and I have no problems with running out of hot water. I want to know if there is something I can install/replace to make the hot water get to the faucet quicker, in 1 minute instead of 5 minutes. And I have this wait with all of my faucets, kitchen, shower and bathrooms.
Thanks for your assistance!
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Plumbing is not my area, but it sounds like you do not have a hot water loop. A hot water loop is when you run a pipe from the farthest point in the house back to the hot water heater. It's a lot easier to have this pipe installed when the house is currently under construction. As to what you can do about putting one in, I myself would have to call a plumber.
Grim
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It sounds like your water heater is located a long distance from each of the fixtures.. However, even in and extreme situation in an average home, anything longer than 30 sec. it too much (sometimes it seems like 5 min. when your standing there).
Try timing it and see if you haven't exagerated the wait time.
If in fact it is taking several minutes then you have a problem with water flow rate.. Most residence are piped with 1/2" OD pvc or 3/8" ID copper tubing.. Either way the cross section area is going to be about 3/8".. The other factor would be the water pressure. Around 50 lb is standard but in some home that could be as low as 30.
I just did a test of my furthest bath room, about 40 ft of 1/2" pipe run from the waterheater.. It took 35 sec. to get warm water, 45 sec. to get hot and about 55 till it was extremely hot.. My water heater is set at about 150 deg.F.
Some might recommend insulating pipes but that only prevents the pipes from cooling off after you have run the hot water into them. Does nothing to shorten your time when the pipe are already cold (30 min. after the last hot water demand).
Move the hot water heater closer to the main demand.. Have knowledgeable plumer put in a hot water recirculating pump. This is used in some commercial installations to keep the hot water at the tap at all times.. This method cost you money because of the pump running periodically and for reheating the water as it cools and is returned to the water heater..
The last but most common solution is the 'on demand' water heater in each bathroom.. These have no tank and heat the water as you need it.. but like I say, you will have to have one for each bath and maybe the kitchen.. These would be efficient, especially if you supply them from the existing hot water line and leave your regular hot water heater on.. Once the hot water from the regular heater get to the 'on demand' heater the electric element will turn off..
Steve (retired steam fitter/pipe fitter)
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If it takes THAT long, your water heater is either located in the neighbors house, or your house is WAY too big. People who build these modern HUGE homes that are larger than barns, pay the price for their extravagance.

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In alt.home.repair snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (PV) wrote:

Is it cold where you're at? It is not possible to keep the water hot when it is inside the pipes. You're dealing with the time it takes to remove the cold water from the pipe, heat the pipe, and then come out the faucet.
This time should get longer the farther you are away from the water heater. The only way I know to change it is to install an instant hot water heater at the source and I doubt you want to do that.
I've never head of a hot water loop but for it to do any good, each plumbing run would have to have one and it would require a pump to run continuously.
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Bruce wrote:

<snipped>
Quite common to see them used where needed in better quality construction.

Not necessarily. Some of them run by gravity ("thermosyphon"). Cold water is heavier than hot. They work the same as the old "gravity" hydronic heating systes.
Happy New Year,
Jeff
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In alt.home.repair

Maybe more common up north. I'm in Texas and I have never seen them, even in "better quality construction."

Interesting but I can't imagine it moving very quickly. And in Texas, the hot water heater is in the attic so it ain't gonna move uphill.
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Texas is a case unto itself. Where else will you find water heaters and the associated cold water supply lines running in unheated attic crawl spaces? Frequently without even a pan under the hot water heater. I can recall seeing water pouring from the front door of homes in the Dallas area a few years back when a cold snap hit at Christmas, power went out and folks were away visiting relatives. All was well until things thawed out. Much of Texas doesn't know what quality construction is.
RB
Bruce wrote:

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For a thermosyphon to work the water heater needs to be lower than the fixtures and that usually requires the water heater to be in the basement. Even then the syphon won't work if there is any horizontal runs or dips..
I have worked on hot water heating systems, as a steamfitter, that were actually single pipe systems. The hot water rises up the pipe and the cold water goes down as. Actually the water never really travels or circulates. The BTUs of heat migrate up through the column of water.. These primative system are generally very simple with the hot water boiler at the bottom of a column (pipe) in the basement and each hot water radiator is tee'ed off at each floor level of the house.. I haven't seen one of these sytems for 50 years. Sorry for the 'flash-back'.
Steve
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Steve,
The water does move, albeit slowly. I had a problem with long delays in getting hot water to my fixtures. My supply line (because I have a 40 to 60 psi well supplied system) is a 1" dia copper pipe so I needed to dump about 6 gallons to move hot water from the water heater to the most distant bathroom. A few years ago I ran a 1/2" return line at basement ceiling height the length of my basement from that most distant bathroom back to the water heater, a distance of about 150 ft. I teed the return into the water heater behind the drain valve giving me an elevation difference of 9 to 10 ft, insulated the supply and return lines and hot water is now quickly available.
Recall that Henry Ford was able to cool his Model T quite well with a thermosyphon and the height difference there is only about a foot.
RB
Steve wrote:

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On 1 Jan 2004 09:05:55 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (PV) wrote:

Strange you asked. I was up in my attic a couple of hours yesterday because I had exactly the same problem. I bought some thick foam 3/4 inch copper pipe insulation and insulated my pipes from the water heater to the end of the main trunk. Costs about $30.
But you probably don't have water pipes in your attic like I do. In that case you are pretty much out of luck.
On your next new house, have the hot water lines wrapped in 2 to 3 inch insulation and wrapped in heavy plastic before you bury them.
PJ
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PV wrote:

This might be a consequence of running 3/4 feeds, as many new houses have. Thus, more standing water has to be replaced before the hot water shows up. I replaced my hot water lines with 3/8 flex, and now get hot water after 20 oz. of draw, with no appreciable lessening of volume. But my runs are short.
pb
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that's bullshit. if you have a tank then it's full of hot water and the only time you need to wait is the time it takes for water to each the faucet from the tank, which is 10 or 20 seconds, not 4 minutes. If you have a tankless water heater, I don't know how long you wait but I doubt people would use those if waiting 4 minutes for hot water with the faucet running would be the norm.
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Don't jump to a conclusion so quickly. It took me at least 3 minutes to get hot water. Flushing cold water from 150 ft of 1" pipe takes (about 6 gallons) takes 4 minutes at 1.5 gpm. At 2.2 gpm drops to 2.7 minutes. Still a long time. Installing a thermosyphon dropped this to seconds.
RB
j j wrote:

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Instant hot water can be achieved by installing a RedyTemp. The unit is loved by homeowners but not as many plumbers. The main reason for this is RedyTemp's "super easy less then 10 minute install". You can't bill much labor for a 10 minute install. And even less if the homeowner installs it themselves. If you visit www.redytemp.com you can see a movie of a 10 yr old girl install the unit is LESS THAN 3 MINUTES. Whether you need hot water fast, have pipes frozen, water frozen in pipe issues, want to save water, save gas, save electric or just want to save energy RedyTemp is ready when you are.
Hot water recirculators have been around for some time. But, most people don't even know about them. I on the other hand believe I do know alot about them...why? Because I did over 2 months of comparison analysis of the different types / brands on the market. Anyone can download this analysis which contains pictures, prices, and other miscellaneous "facts" which I collected exclusively from the internet during the 2 month study.
Why would I do a 2 month study? Because I was offered to purchase a business, patent and trademark for a great sum of money. Just like me, you would also put a great amount of thought, research, market analysis before you spent a lot of your savings. The market analysis which consisted of surfing the internet for hot water recirculators, hot water on d'mand systems. There are roughly 8 different kinds available on the market. They're priced anywhere from $149 through $600 and more (this does not include the installation cost). Some have wireless remote control activation (so you can just "press a button remotely", if the non-standard camera battery in the remote control has been replaced within the last 30 days, costing $15 dollars or more every 30 days to replace, and you don't mind having one clipped on your belt next to your cellphone so you don't have to chase it down), some have "press button" to activate, some run all the time, some run automatically, some have timers, some only work with "closed loop" or dedicated hot water return lines (RedyTemp can be used on either type of systems), some use the cold water line to return the water back to the water heater (causing issues with warmy water in the cold line, RedyTemp doesn't have this problem due to its patented manifold and adjustable temp control capability). Some are noisey, some are quiet. Installations range from 10 minutes to do an installation....and others can take up to 3 hours or more and require multiple plumbers type tools, draining of the water heater, cutting and measuring pipe, soldering, running wires all throughout your house to each tap / faucet (so you can press a button "every" time your gonna use the hot water....and then.....stilll wait for hot water to arrive), most require mounting to a solid wall, purging, calibrating. Most void warranty if unit is run without water in the line, accidentally or not (RedyTemp has run tests to ensure that this is not an issue with our units). All these troublesome installation issues often cause homeowners to shy away from the hot water recirculator idea. Plumbers would much rather run a dedicated line back to your water heater which takes "time" and materials ....thats where the dollars can quickly jump from your pocket to theirs. I have nothing against plumbers, they have families too and they provide a valuable service to the community.
Throughout my research I discovered 2 consistant issues with all the recirculators on the market as of 2004... The problems were the installations were just too scary from a homeowners point of view who has no plumbing experience (that included me) and the second thing was that calcium / hard water more often then not made the recirculators fail / clog within the first or second year and sometimes as quick as a few months. I even heard a guy who had bought a brand, took it home, installed it...thinking it was faulty due to the "not soo hot" water which was being delivered, took it back to the store and stated that it must be a bad one, got another one off the shelf, took it home installed it...but, still the water being delivered was not hot. He then took this second unit he had tried back to the depot store and asked why the water was not so hot...where the plumbing dept person working their stated that, 95degree's was the highest temperature that any hot water recirculator could do (apparently he hadn't heard of a RedyTemp)..
All this dissappointing information I was discovering made me all the more interested in the RedyTemp. Why? Because it was the "only" hot water recirculator which over came the problems that all the others on the market had not.. RedyTemp's installation was so simple it could be compared to the difficulty of hooking up two garden hoses. The movie showing a 10 yr old girl installing a RedyTemp in less then 3 minutes (available for download at www.RedyTemp.com) proves just how simple it is. The calcium / hard water problem was also overcome by the RedyTemp, by creating the patented manifold which is not made of metal / copper etc., which we all know calcium loves to stick to, the RedyTemps' manifold has never had a single unit fail in all its history in business since 1994. Where all the others on the market require "periodic" maintenance / cleaning schedule, the RedyTemp is 100% maintenance free. RedyTemp also is the only hot water recirculator which has a patented temperature control capability, allowing the homeowner to adjust how hot is enough and how much does he want to regulate his savings.
Nonetheless, I became very excited and after speaking with previous owners of the RedyTemp and previous owners of others on the market, I did end up becoming the new owner of Temtrol Delta T. Inc., the manufacturer of the RedyTemp Instant Hot Water Recirculator.
Hot water recirculators do work...but for how long and to what efficiency is the only real mystery. What is not a mystery is that there are over 3,000 satisfied RedyTemp users in America that love their unit, couldn't live without it, etc. I myself, its just what America needs. With the increase in population, the ever growing concern for water shortages, the growing issues with natural gas and electric, I don't understand why a RedyTemp is not in every home.
When a person waits and waits for hot water to arrive at their tap, not only is water being wasted down the drain, but the local water company is filling up your water heater with "very cold" city water to replace the water thats going down the drain. This "extra" very cold city water is having to be heated now unnecessarily. Most homeowners I've spoken with think "so it saves water, how much does water cost?" but what they don't realize, until I explain whats happening, is that they're wasting not only water, but gas / electric to heat the new water which has replaced the water you wasted down the drain while you waited for the hot water in the first place. Lets not forget the minutes that the lights were on while you waited..., day after day...use after use...it really adds up.
Now, my research wouldn't be complete unless I also considered tankless water heaters. This is a fairly new technology in America. They are always very high in price especially after you factor in the installation expense, inspections from local code enforcements. I've read throughout the news groups and discussion forums that they just cost way too much, and because of this homeowners often buy the cheapest one they can find, only to discover that they didn't get the right size for their home and because of this people are getting bursts of very hot water while showering and doing laundry / dishes or someone else in the home uses water at the same times. As for waiting for hot water... plan on it. You will continue to wait for hot water at you faucets / showers / laundry / dishwashers with a tankless water heater. So.... the savings can be great, in exchange for discomfort and having to wait for hot water. As for my opinion on the Thermosyphon System, it would appear that as long as you have bright sunny days, a solid roof, this system would save on energy cost due to the fact that the sun would be heating any newly delivered city water to the home (of course that is "if" its not night time and its bright and sunny) but, this system still would not deliver "no wait" hot water to the tap unless it was directly over the tap. Nothing beats the RedyTemps flexible installation options, multiple control capabilities, i.e. motion sensor integration, step switch, the clapper, etc. and with a RedyTemp your limited to only the length of the flex lines you use as to where you can place it in your home. Meaning, you could pass the flexlines through a floor or wall and then to the faucets.
I personally, am still very glad I bought the company, it still is the superior product on the market and the only one that I know which people aren't complaining about because "it" really works. Every month a new customer calls too ask questions wanting reassurance that the RedyTemp will not fail like the competitor product failed / clogged so quickly... RedyTemp is time tested and continually makes people glad they own one... day after day. Especially during the winter months, thats when its really appreciated but we're not sure if its due to the fact that the RedyTemp stops pipes freezing, frozen water line problems in check.
Whether you need hot water fast, have pipes frozen, water frozen in pipe issues, want to save water, save gas, save electric or just want to save energy RedyTemp is ready when you are.
Thanks for listening to my two cents and hope you'll visit our website to see what makes the RedyTemp the smart choice in Hot Water Recirculators. The 30 day money back quarantee and 2 year warranty doesn't hurt either.

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Spam.
Pure and simple Spam

www.killyourselfifselfinstalled.com you

rest snipped
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Ignorance... you must be a plumber who needs work.... if you have some comments, them speak them... but don't make other people not learn the truth. The Testimonials on the website are not made up... only your ignorance of new technology.
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OK not spam, just lies and alot of crap from a snake oil salesman - A CON
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Don't forget that with the grundfos you'll have to do periodic cleaning...as shown on their website and in the downloadable product comparison study which can be downloaded at ....where else www.redytemp.com oh, and don't forget to order a $36 dollar each valve that you'll have to put at the faucets...
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