Metal Halide bulb in sodium lamp....

[Existential Angst]

Awl --

Guess what.... of course it didn't lite up! Seems like the sodium bulbs were mixed in with the metal halide bulbs, in the hardware store, and I was just looking for "70W".

The Q is: Did it harm the ballast? The bulb was in there for a few minutes, while I mucked around (25 feet up in a tree), tryna figger stuff out, before I noticed the "MH" designation on the bulb... A short length of the glass stem glowed very slightly.

So, I disconnected the fixture (70 W) from power altogether, until I can (hopefully) exchange the bulb. I doubt the bulb was harmed. Man, these things aren't cheap.... almost $22 for the metal halide bulb.

These bulbs are really inneresting in design. Not sure what does what, but the insides are neat. I assume most of these bulbs are similar to regular ole fluorescents in principle, where the atom at hand needs to be vaporized, then ionized (ignited), then kept in a steady state current.

[Existential Angst]

Have no fear..... put in the sodium bulb ($7 cheaper), lit right up. I musta done 1/4 mile worth of climbing for this g-d buhb....

I tell ya, not to go off on a luminous rant, but lighting, at least in pubic places, seems to almost smack of hostility. Sodium lamps, around for AGES (60 years, mebbe, from the 50's??), really have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer typical parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the harshest way. Carbon arcs proly give softer light....

Now we have these miserable-assed CFLs....

LED traffic lites/brake lites pert near puncture yer retinas..... At night, at a red light (harsh unto itself, if LED), I"ll often have to drop down my sun visor, until the car in front of me starts moving..... holy shit....

And neighbors, with their effing "security lighting", apparently don't understand "indirect", "diffuse", or "cover"....

No breaks, yo, no breaks.

[bob haller]

I like CFLs and anixiousy await affordable LEDS.

the early CFLs were poor quality, costly, didnt last long, and light quality poor.

but current ones not from a dollar store are actually very good.

and in a parking lot light situation who cares about color rendetion?

the only lights i really hate are the new super brilliant ones on police cars and emergency vehicles. so brite they are a distraction of their own.

and the super brite blue headlights on newer vehicles are really unsafe they can temporarily blind drivers

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I know they said that about halogen bulbs. Before that, they said it about sealed-beam headlights. Earlier still, they said it about the system where both headlights dipped instead of turning one off altogether. They probably said the same about the change from carbide to electric.

Perce

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in news:4fb5b17e$0$3075$ [e-mail]:

Where do you get those opinions? I think you're expressing personal preferences, not the general consensus.

The general consensus is that most people HATE sodium vapor lights. Sodium vapor light kills virtually all color perception. They're used for only one reason -- they're the most efficient lamp. They emit almost a single line, and you can even see interference rings around a sodium vapor lamp viewed from far enough away to make it appear as a point source.

Most parking lot lights are _not_ metal halide, but mercury vapor -- next in efficiency, and emitting a light closer to white than sodium vapor. But their light IS harsh and bluish to the eye ("garish" is a good term). Color perception is still disrupted somewhat by the blue tint.

Enter metal halide lamps. They give an almost "true" white, allow for very good color vision, and don't appear tinted to the naked eye. They're still quite efficient.

FWIW, you can buy metal halide lamps that have been designed to work on a sodium ballast. I have some in my barn that have been used almost every day for nearly 15 years. I got mine from MSC back in 1996. Still goin' strong.

LLoyd

[Existential Angst]

I like CFLs and anixiousy await affordable LEDS.

the early CFLs were poor quality, costly, didnt last long, and light quality poor.

but current ones not from a dollar store are actually very good.

and in a parking lot light situation who cares about color rendetion?

the only lights i really hate are the new super brilliant ones on police cars and emergency vehicles. so brite they are a distraction of their own.

and the super brite blue headlights on newer vehicles are really unsafe they can temporarily blind drivers =================================================

Absolutely. And expensive, fwih -- another "extortion by technology".

[Existential Angst]

Dude -- it's outside, at nite, it's not an art museum.... The light is *soft* -- well, at least a bearable compromise between soft and cheap.

I don't really understand people's "expectations" with lite. There are NYC subway stations so brightly lit (fluorescent tubes) you need sunglasses AND sunscreen -- a profligate waste of photons. But then..... NYC *is* profligate....

I tell people, Dudes, it's a fukn SUBWAY station, not a g-d liberry.....

I'll take the sodium yellow any day. I no need no "true white" walking home at midnight.... I no need no "true color perception". I no mind interference rings..... All's I want is sumpn easy on the eyes....

From 1996???? Holy shit, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last more than

2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day. The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.

[Robert Macy]

17e$0$3075$ [e-mail]:

It is my understanding that these sodium lights produce light that can easily be removed by the astronomers. In other words, remove the normal 'glare' from a nearby city.

When first proferred the manufacturers touted how these 'harsh' lights used in parking lots lowered crime rates, because felon minded perps couldn't stand the light. Wish I'd saved a copy of that!

These lights DO remove color from view. Once at night, I parked my car along a clearly painted RED CURB fire lane, because in the light from these sodium lights the red curb lost ALL color. I checked when I parked, no red curb. When I fought the ticket, the judge said I should rely on the signs to tell me not to park there, which were only 40 feet away!

[Existential Angst]

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4? Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if city street light bulbs last that long?

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W.... :) And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think the sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but would be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

I would have probably used eight 200 W fixtures in 8,000 sq ft.... then mebbe you wouldn't need that drop light!

[Ed Huntress]

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the ability to separate some objects.

When I was doing a lot of industrial photography and I'd encounter those suckers, I'd ask, only slightly facetiously, if anyone had a .22 pistol I could use to shoot them out. d8-)

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in news:4fb697d2$0$20894$ [e-mail]:

Each. Remember, they were "conversion" bulbs. Extra. But still cheaper than buying a metal halide lamp AND a metal halide ballast of that quality.

These were old military fixtures, made in the early 80s, and still (but one) running on the original ballasts. I have one spare ballast left. THEN I have to spend real bucks.

LLoyd

[Existential Angst]

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad? Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which was my intention.

As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the bend my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing condoms, napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering trees, etc. So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole twin outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but still far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my above rant.... hilarious.... But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside my house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought, like, a used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of my house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be good for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so at

8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!! goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a number of QOL issues, as well. Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.

[Ed Huntress]

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on "I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was quite a sight.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure. They're a lot more efficient.

Yonkers presents a lot of unusual business opportunities. d8-)

I have fond memories of Yonkers from when I lived in Mt. Vernon, at ages 8 and 9. My two horse-racing uncles used to drive in the harness races there. They knew who would win, so I always came home with money. d8-)

[Existential Angst]

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure. If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high pressure sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!! Which would explain the broader spectrum. If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Heh, esp for the pols.... Sanda Annabi being the latest. A convicted councilwoman concubine.... LOL I dint know nookie could be so expensive.... mebbe I should raise the rate on dat Escalade.... LOL

Fukn ex-mayer Amicone dutifully perpetuated the mafia/eyetalian connection, but never got caught.

It's now Empire City, a full-service casino. I think the only thing Empire is missing is VIP/massage rooms for the high rollers.... altho there ought to be a Homey Room.....

[Ed Huntress]

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure, high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

[Existential Angst]

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are used to further mindfuck us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref. star to get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to astronomy. NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms, which I guess are floating around up there somewhere.... Funny they would pick sodium....

No city street lites for astronomers, eh? LOL

Hey, where is everybody?? People got lives out there?? Even Stormin??? Hard to imagine... LOL

[Ed Huntress]

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from the others.

Then there's krypton-86...but let's not go there.

Some people have lives on Friday nights. I have Yankees games. I'll have to call the guys at Modern Machine Shop on Monday and gloat about shutting out the Reds tonight.

[Joseph Gwinn]

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

Joe Gwinn

[Existential Angst]

Well, strictly speaking, sea-salt is IONIC sodium with different lines than atomic sodium. There are also calcium, potassium, magnesium salts. But no matter, whatever works.... Overall perty fascinating, tho.

You'd figger that scientists smart enough to figger all this out (I imagine this adaptive optics stuff is no easy slam dunk) would be smart enough to measure the temperature of the earth, eh?? LOL

[Joseph Gwinn]

The hard part is measuring it to tenths of a degree before the invention of thermometers and temperature standards, so we can distinguish noise from warming (or cooling) trend.

Joe Gwinn