HVAC question and saga (long)

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Ummm...Goodman Inducer motor....about $20 without housing and wheel. Now..Carrier..they have a couple that you have to replace the board with, and just the boards over $70
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:28:32 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Did that cheaper price include fuel for the truck, the techs wage, the lights at the shop... You fucking homeowners think we should just give shit away, truly amazing.
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Al Moran wrote:

You are an idiot, a poor business man, and a thief if you sell service or product at many times the cost. Every business has costs, you sound like the hospital that gave explained the huge costs for analysis with a new medical machine because the capital cost of the machine needed to be recovered, indicating a recovery in about 10 years. Turned out that the capital cost plus all of the maintenance costs were recovered in the first year of operation.
Your fellow HVAC guy said the cost was only 20 or maybe $90 with a board. Charging $350 for such an item would be simple theft.
Doesn't matter what "you" (meaning me) homeowner think, you won't need to worry 'cause I'll fix or replace the part myself at a reasonable cost. If not, I'll simply replace the whole damn thing which will be probably be cheaper than having you replace a little itty bitty part. That won't affect you much tho, because most people couldn't find the furnace let alone change a fan. 'Course that's how lots of repair shops went broke. Shops charged $70 to replace a $10 part in 1O minutes and the whole thing only costs $90. Bye, bye repair shop.
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wrote:

If I had something that costs $90 I would NOT call someone out to repair in the first place.
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wrote:

Actually, it happens all the time, and its called free market.
Ever buy a new car?
Ever seen what that new car REALLY cost?
Give ya a hint....$30,000 Dodge Ram Pickup...made in Mexico...no leather, no dually..just a basic 2500 series...what you think it cost start to finish to delevery to make? hint is, drop a figure...now you are down to 4 figures....but hey..you paid the extra 21 grand for it.

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CBHVAC wrote:

market, how come there are no equivalent cars built and sold for a lot less than that $30,000. In fact, how come the U.S. automakers don't just lower the price so much that they blow out the foreign car market?
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wrote:

Hummm...interesting question. Ahh...but there are. See....we bought a new 2500 03 B-Van...extended, and the sticker was $27,000 and some change. Total off the lot cash price? Under 16,500. Ok..so it helps the old man owns a dealership, and it helps I got it at whats called Green Sheet....but ya know, if you ask ANY tech that does PDI inspections on the Mexican made trucks, (the van wasnt) they can tell you that SOMETIMES, the shipping invoice is shoved under the seats, or left in a glovebox, and they are to destroy it right off. Thats NOT what it cost the dealer, mind you, thats what it cost the company to build.
Hey,....if that was the case, I should be able to lower my prices on say.....2.5 ton, 12SEER (yes..i have tons left) Affinity units to under $2700 installed with an air handler.....wow.... (sarcasm here) I did...and i got called a hack, a fool, and have the competition calling me every name in the book...
Ask yourself this.....
If Mercedes say...suddenly started to offer a $10,000 500 series....would you buy it? I wouldnt.
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:18:10 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Thanks for proving you have no clue how things work.
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And broke it off in him.
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I had to tell one of those whiny homeowners that yesterday. Went on a no heat on a 20 yo heat pump about four days ago. Run cap to the compressor was bad. Tell ho that due to the age of the equipment I would recommend replacing the system. He says no, go ahead and replace run cap. I do, and tell him that although I don't have a crystal ball, something will break again, maybe sooner, maybe later. I offer him a 1 year maintenance contract which entitles him to 20% off any repairs. He declines. Yesterday I get a no heat call at the same place. This time the blower motor has died. Tell him again i recommend replacing the system but I'll do whatever he wants. he asks about price of new system and price of blower motor. I tell him and he starts whining about the money he spent for the run cap and the money he has just decided to spend for a new blower motor. This goes on for about five minutes and then I have to explain "overhead" to him. he starts whining again and I tell him that he should get some more estimates for the blower motor if he is not happy with the price. This shuts the idiot up. He buys new blower mototr and 1 year service plan. So now said genius has spent 99.00 for a run cap, 59.00 twice for service calls, 477.00 for a blower motor and 183.00 for a service contract. All of this for a 20 yo system. What a good investment! Not!
$477.00 for a blower motor plus $59.00 for the service call! No wonder your customers moan. You must have a hell of an overhead! I just installed a 1/3 HP blower motor for an old lady in her attic air handler. It cost her just under $250.00 labor and materials. No service agreement discount. I made a healthy profit, including doubling my cost of the motor. I like to make a profit, it keeps me in business. This is why I watch my costs, so I can keep my prices reasonable and still buy the tools and training I need to provide good service to my customers.
Stretch
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I don't make the prices, the owner does. We use level pricing. Blower motor is a level four which is 477.00. Our pricing guide is different depending on the region you are in. Level 4 for the east coast is less, but I don't recall exactly how much. We are on the west coast where everything is expensive.
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We live near Gettysburg Pa. The first installer, Wes Bishop, is out of MD but travels the US in a tractor trailer installing commercial dust systems. He had installed HVAC systems for many years but dust systems pay better.
Key Services out of Pa did most of the installation and had it major screwed up.
The rest are minor players.
The orginal spec was 14K. We are currenly up over 22K and next week the new guys will cost over 1K. If it works I will gladly pay it.
If I have to go to propane (natural gas not option) what would be a ballpark figure for replacing the oil burner?
I wish one and all a happy new year and may all your installations be good ones! :-)
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IMO, you don't need to convert to gas. In Gettysburg, you can't use a 90+ gas furnace, because the condensation in the unit will freeze in the winter. Do yourself a BIG favor and install a pull down ladder to your attic. The service technician will not be as pissed off when working on your unit. Try climbing up and down through a trap door with tools, drop light, meters, etc. Do this several times, and you'll get the idea. Before he gets there, take a look at your oil line for compression fittings. If you have them, they are probably a big part of the problem. A compression fitting connects brass to brass to brass. A flare fitting connects brass to copper to brass. The copper is soft, and creates a tighter fit. A good oil technician should have no problem with you asking him to change them. Also look for Teflon tape on the oil line fittings. Fittings with Teflon tape will suck air. If you already have properly installed, tight flare fittings, then a two stage fuel pump and a positive shut-off check valve should solve your problem. I'm not so sure you need a return line back to the tank. You may want to wait on that, unless it's real easy to install.

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Thanks Bob (and everyone that has added their thoughts). I think I'll go with the 2 lines unless the general thought is it wouldn't work. I would rather have it done once. Installing though not real easy is certainly doable.....maybe annoying. But the folks doing it know whats ahead of them.
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On 1 Jan 2006 05:52:47 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote:

I still call your bullshit. Im wrong on several accounts ? Yet your story reads like a bad play. You get a guy to do the install that travels the US in tractor trailer installing dust systems? You install an oil furnace in an attic? and without proper access? You add in some story about the guy "losing his girl"? Hey, Im sorry to hear about that but business does go on. You could only find one guy that installs metal runs? You screwed yourself with all your goofy cheap choices and now all the hvac guys are hacks? With that mentality, Then I have to say that all homemoaners are stupid, cheap bastards. Here is a clue: Look for a professional, licensed HVAC company. You dont seem to be doing that. Traveling creek gypsies dont count. Bubba

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