how to run electric to island in basement

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I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code- friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it, then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not thinking of? Thanks.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with fresh concrete.
Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails front and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood shelves).
In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink in the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be easy enough.
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We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the help.
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Are you sure you can't find a decorative reason to have a wooden post running up to the ceiling from the bar? Route a channel in it, add conduit to safely contain the wire, and ba da bing you're done.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an inch or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.
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wrote:

He still needs a way to run the wire from the raised thing you suggested, to the wall or ceiling, or wherever he's sourcing power from.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

He indicated the shelves were on the bar back, which would seem to indicate the bar consists of two cabinet sections, one against a wall and one parallel in front of it as an island with a walkway between them. This would make it seem reasonable to raise the floor level slightly and use different flooring in that walkway area between, which would allow conduit to be run from the wall side cabinets up to the island ones.
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wrote:

That's true. And I'm also thinking of those things you sometimes see at trade shows and on stages. They look like speed bumps, made for running wires along floors without creating a sharp edge that people will trip over.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Right, and that's what the raised floor section would effectively be, just a lot wider so it doesn't look out of place. I think a raised floor of a water resistant flooring like vinyl tile in that bar area would look "normal" vs. a small cord guard strip looking ugly.
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Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor. I've already gotten approval from the wife to put in a bar (and pool table, and TV on the wall, etc), and want to just take that and run with it. If I have to, I'll use the speedbump power cord idea, but would really like something that doesn't look so industrial. The floor will be engineered wood floor, and the plan is to have that wood flooring across the entire basement (except in the bathroom and workout space), so running a Romex cable underneath isn't really a possiblity I don't think. I have an angle grinder, so I guess I'll do some test-cuts tonight. Would 1/2 inch conduit be sufficient? Any idea how deep it would need to be?
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I wouldn't go hacking up your floor until you've explored some other ideas, via resources IN ADDITION TO this newsgroup. Open your yellow pages phone book and find a real electrical supply place. Not Home Depot. Not Lowe's. You might get multiple benefits from visiting such a place:
- Ideas - Touch and see the ideas - People who work at these places are often familiar with local building codes
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Second reviewing all options, cutting the slab should be the last resort.
As for conduit, 1/2" sch 40 PVC conduit would be sufficient for the items you want on the island. You'd only need larger if you intended something like an electric cook top. Depth need not be more than a couple inches since it will have concrete cover as well as being blatantly obvious due to the different concrete color on the strip (you'll never get a perfect match), but from a practical perspective it will likely be full slab depth since it will be easier to cut full depth and remove that strip than to cut partial depth and try to chisel out to the depth you want.
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:41:48 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That rules out everything but trenching the floor. You expecting magic?
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I'm curious about why you don't want to run the wire up to the ceiling. If it's a dropped ceiling, the rest would be a breeze, and the wire would be much easier to work on if you had to do future maintenance.
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In article
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

EZ, install a small generator in the bar :0
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
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I gotta tell ya, everything suggested so far is much more work and expense than just cutting into the concrete and laying some cable. With a rented quickie saw, it should take you about 15 minutes to cut two grooves in the concrete. Then take a cold chisle and knock it out. I would try and lay romex cable instead of conduit. With conduit, you run the risk of moister collection with no way of draining. Run a 4 wire 12 guage, just in case you want 2 circuits. Lou
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So are you saying to cut the concrete, run 12/3 romex, and then pour new concrete right over the romex? I thought that was what I needed conduit for, and the romex went inside the conduit. No???
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You'd have to use UF, not Romex (NM) if you were to direct bury it. Conduit is cheap and allows for pulling new or additional conductors in the future. You generally don't run Romex in conduit either, you usually pull individual THHN conductors. Moisture in the PVC conduit will certainly happen, but rarely bothers the conductors in it.
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They are correct. Us the UF, not romex. I wouldn't run conduit in any place that has a chance of flooding even by a power outage to the sump. Lou

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wrote:

If he does trench the concrete., Smurf tube is probably the best way to get the wire in it. That is listed for burial in concrete so he could just backfill the trench with concrete and be done.
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