If the automotive spray primer doesn't work out for you, and you opt to
go back to the diluted white wood glue, be sure to use a paint roller to
apply the diluted white glue; not a brush. Brushing won't work here
because the water will soften up the skim coat of joint compound, and
brushing it will just make a mess. And, of course, if you roll, don't
keep rolling the same area over and over again. Roll it as best you can
to saturate the skim coat with dilute adhesive, and then move on to the
next area. If you don't think you've added enough adhesive, don't go
back. You can always add more glue with the next rolling. With each
application of adhesive, the skim coat will get a bit harder.
And, of course, the dilute wood glue can be washed out of the roller
sleeve just like latex paint. If you plan on applying multiple coats,
keep the roller sleeve and handle and the paint tray in separate plastic
bags to prevent evaporation of water from them.
I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40
glue is starting to sound like the best option, thanks.
[painting like old masters?! any chance we'll see your work someday?]
| I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40
That's not necessarily a solution either. Paint stores
hire clerks, not painters. And those clerks are supposed
to sell product. (If you go to buy wall paint at a Ben
Moore store you'll probably leave with a gallon of Aura,
which is their watery new line of overpriced "designer"
paints. Why? Because the Aura line uses a new system
of tinting and also costs a lot more than the standard line
of paint. And those stores had to buy the hardware for
the new tinting system. So they're trying to sell you the
expensive product. No surprise there. Is Aura good? Not
really. It covers well but settles so flat that a shiny spot
underneath will show through. I might buy it to paint a new
wall that's *perfectly* flat. Otherwise I'd avoid it, even
if it were on sale.)
The same goes for hardware stores and
Home Depot. If the clerks knew that much they'd be
contractors. There are exceptions -- clerks who are
interested in their work and retired contractors who work
as clerks -- but there's no reason to think a clerk knows
what they're talking about.
Many years ago I was in a paint store and saw
EmulsaBond for the first time. It is (or was) an additive
from Flood that combined oil and emulsifier so that
one could make latex paint soak in like oil paint. I like
to use it with very watered down latex paint to seal
dusty, concrete basement floors. At the time I'd never
heard of it and asked the clerk what it was. His response:
"In terms you can understand, it's like glue." :)
Your situation sounds very mysterious. Maybe the oil
base primer will work. But it seems easier to me to just
stop experimenting, scrape off the top layer, and do
another layer of compound.... My second choice might
be to hang a picture. :)
The patch needs to be SEALED to keep it from absorbing all the water
from the paint. Anything that seals the surface should work. Best
solution is a shelac or oil based primer. On patches I've found a
light coat of spay enamel or laquer to seal the patch, followed bu a
coat or two of primer applied with a roller to blend the texture makes
the paint cover and hide the repair almost perfectly.
I didn't learn that easily either - we were tearing our hair out
trying to figure out how to heap the patch compound from "blistering"
when I though of the can of old car touch-up paint in the garage.
Problem solved. I still have hair!!!!
tac rag was one of the attempts after the 'normal' methods failed, before
simply used dry paper towel somtimes slightly damp paper towel, but after
problems tried the tac rag.
Allow a lot of time, sometimes 24 hours for very thin coat, somtimes 48
hours, sometimes over a week, nothing made much difference.
also, removing skim coat down, and reapplying 'new' layer of skim coat has
not worked, either.
If this keeps up, I'll have to follow nestork's suggestion of adding a big
hole, but place it more judiciously on top the problem.
No, using a tack cloth, or even several of them, wouldn't have caused
the problem. Tack cloth simply picks up loose dust, and they're used
all the time to remove sanding dust after sanding varnish or
polyurethane down when refinishing furniture. If the use of a tack
cloth isn't detrimental to the adhesion of polyurethane to polyurethane
or varnish to varnish, is shouldn't be detrimental to the adhesion of
latex paint to joint compound.
I've used diluted glue to consolidate both drywall joint compound and
cement based floor leveller on the apartment floors in my building. I
mix the compound I use (either Synko Pro Set 90 Lite Sand or Mapei
Planipatch) without any glue so that it dries soft and easy to sand
smooth. Then I apply diluted white wood glue to the smooth surface, and
the result is that as the glue dries it glues all the gypsum or cement
particles together, making the surface much harder. You need that in a
floor to properly support the floor tiles.
And, I can tell when the joint compound or floor leveler is absorbing
dilute wood glue by the colour change. If the compound turns dark when
you paint dilute glue onto it with a roller sleeve, that's because the
liquid is being absorbed. Once you no longer see a colour change, it
means that no more liquid is being absorbed and so there's no point in
putting any more on.
Then, if this is joint compound you're working with, put a skim coat of
joint compound over the consolidated joint compound, allow time for it
to dry, sand smooth and then paint. That SHOULD fix this problem.
No need to bash a hole in the wall.
I've painted a lot of joint and patching compound. Sometimes I primed
with primer, sometimes with paint. Sometime cheap paint, sometimes
Tack cloth is for varnishing or lacquering wood, not plaster,
It will always take more paint to blend it in, because it's more
absorbent than its surroundings. Usually a second coat does it.
I NEVER had a problem with it. In adhesion or cosmetics.
I suspect the OP used bad compound or as you said didn't let it cure.
I really can't fathom why you are having all this trouble. DW compound is
just fine calcium carbonate with a powder...easy to sand, sanding creates
a lot of fine calcium carbonate powder which is relatively tenacious as
far as wiping it off/up goes. Even if there is some sanding residue
remaining, painting over it with anything would pretty much lock it in.
In your OP you said you could, "peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet
of paper". The operative word here is "thick". HOW thick? A paint film
should NOT be thick. Is there DW compound on the underside of the paint
Just guessing but I'm thinking you applied the paint - latex, right? - so
heavily that it redissolved the DW compound more than a normal layer of
paint would. The paint then dried on the outside leaving the bottom part
and the DW compound wet. Over time, while the inside was drying, there
was a minute amount of sag forming a paint + some DW compound on the
inside that was essentially stuck to nothing.
As I said, just a guess, I have never EVER had the problem you have. Or
various others as well :)
We had exactly the same problem (if I read the OP correctly) when
patching popped drywall nails in our dining room and stair-well. As
soon as we painted over the patch - even 48 hours later, the surface
of the patch would "lift". It looked AWFULL. If we let it totally dry,
the "bubble" would shrink down and look a lot better, but not perfect,
and it was not hard to pop the patch out. After trying all kinds of
things I decided to seal the patch with a non-water-based paint as a
sealer. The surface did not lift. I then painted over it with water
based paint with no issue. A shellac, laquer, or oil (alkyd) based
primer or paint will all do the job.
The alternative would have been to do all the repairs with a "setting"
type compound like durabond, that chemically cures (like concrete)
instead of drying. Only problem is durabond sets like concrete and is
a bugger to sand, and I didn't want to do everything over after having
gotten it all sanded almost perfectly smooth...
> sanding creates a lot of fine calcium carbonate powder which is
> relatively tenacious as far as wiping it off/up goes.
No, that's not right.
There are different kinds of drywall joint compounds. Not only is there
powder that is sold in bags, but there is premix that comes in both
boxes and pails. And, for powder there are different kinds of chemical
set compounds that harden up after 30, 60 and 90 minutes.
And, on top of all that, each of the chemical sets and premixes comes in
different formulations with the biggest difference being the amount of
powdered or liquid glue added to the joint compound. There are:
REGULAR or "Taping" joint compounds that have the most glue in them and
are meant for taping joints. The high amount of glue in these compounds
makes them stick well to the drywall, but it also makes them very hard
to sand smooth.
FINISH or "Topping" joint compounds that have the least glue in them and
are meant to be applied over the hardened Taping compounds. The low
glue content in these compounds makes them very soft and easy to sand
ALL PURPOSE joint compounds are basically mid-way between Taping and
Topping joint compounds so far as glue content goes. They stick well,
but also sand smooth without a fight. They're meant mostly for repair
work so that the contractor doesn't have to carrying around two bags,
boxes or pails everywhere in his truck or at the job site. He can just
use the one product for everything, and that's a convenience.
So, to say that joint compound is nothing more than limestone dust just
isn't correct. There's a lot of chemistry that goes into making some
joint compounds stick better and dry harder and other joint compounds
that dry softer and sand smooth easier. If you muck up that chemistry
by mixing the joint compound with too much water, you could end up
diluting the glue in the compound TOO much with the result that you get
a joint compound that dries very soft and very powdery, which I believe
is the problem Robert Macy is dealing with now. His joint compound
isn't holding together and he's wondering why his paint won't stick.
In fact, I expect his paint IS sticking, but the joint compound it's
sticking to isn't sticking to the joint compound behind it, and therein
lies the problem.
A "setting" type compound like durabond works good for the "taping"
and makes an extremely solid joint. That is the 30, 45, or 60 minute
compound you mix from powder. Then the finishing compounds (I usually
used an "all purpose" lightweight, but the newer "less dust" type
works well too) can be u-mix or pre-mixed. Doing a big job, use the
pre-mixed. Use a good brand name and check the "best before" date.
Prime with a good drywall primer - shellac or alkyd based better than
latex. then finish as usual with a fine texture roller and a minimum
of 2 coats
For patching plaster (not dry-wall) use a mixture of Poly-Filla and
plaster of paris. The plaster makes it set fast and hard, the poly
makes it TOUGH - and it blends with the old plaster colour and
texture-wise so the repairs are virtually invisible.
I would never use Poly-Filla for anything.
For repairing plaster, most people just use a modern base coat plaster
followed by joint compound for the top coat. You can buy base coat
plasters at any place listed under "Plaster & Drywall Supplies" in your
yellow pages. That's how most contractors fix plaster walls. The only
time real lime plaster will be used is where repairs are being done to a
historically significant building and it's important to use the same
materials and techniques that would have been used by the original
I have been using either Domtar Perlite Admix or USG's Structolite as a
base coat plaster and Synko ProSet 90 joint compound as my top coat for
well over 25 years now, and my plaster repairs are just as invisible and
long lasting as anyone else's.
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