How to get Glidden paint to adhere to joint compound skim coat?

[RobertMacy]

hmmm, might use one of our spray bottles ;)

[RobertMacy]

I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40 years.

glue is starting to sound like the best option, thanks.

[painting like old masters?! any chance we'll see your work someday?]

[Mayayana]

| I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40 | years. |

That's not necessarily a solution either. Paint stores hire clerks, not painters. And those clerks are supposed to sell product. (If you go to buy wall paint at a Ben Moore store you'll probably leave with a gallon of Aura, which is their watery new line of overpriced "designer" paints. Why? Because the Aura line uses a new system of tinting and also costs a lot more than the standard line of paint. And those stores had to buy the hardware for the new tinting system. So they're trying to sell you the expensive product. No surprise there. Is Aura good? Not really. It covers well but settles so flat that a shiny spot underneath will show through. I might buy it to paint a new wall that's *perfectly* flat. Otherwise I'd avoid it, even if it were on sale.)

The same goes for hardware stores and Home Depot. If the clerks knew that much they'd be contractors. There are exceptions -- clerks who are interested in their work and retired contractors who work as clerks -- but there's no reason to think a clerk knows what they're talking about.

Many years ago I was in a paint store and saw EmulsaBond for the first time. It is (or was) an additive from Flood that combined oil and emulsifier so that one could make latex paint soak in like oil paint. I like to use it with very watered down latex paint to seal dusty, concrete basement floors. At the time I'd never heard of it and asked the clerk what it was. His response: "In terms you can understand, it's like glue." :)

Your situation sounds very mysterious. Maybe the oil base primer will work. But it seems easier to me to just stop experimenting, scrape off the top layer, and do another layer of compound.... My second choice might be to hang a picture. :)

[Norminn]

[nestork]

Another alternative that crossed my mind would be to just take a hammer and smash a big hole in the wall next to that problem area.

No one will notice the paint peeling in the problem area.

[clare]

The patch needs to be SEALED to keep it from absorbing all the water from the paint. Anything that seals the surface should work. Best solution is a shelac or oil based primer. On patches I've found a light coat of spay enamel or laquer to seal the patch, followed bu a coat or two of primer applied with a roller to blend the texture makes the paint cover and hide the repair almost perfectly.

I didn't learn that easily either - we were tearing our hair out trying to figure out how to heap the patch compound from "blistering" when I though of the can of old car touch-up paint in the garage. Problem solved. I still have hair!!!!

[RobertMacy]

tac rag was one of the attempts after the 'normal' methods failed, before simply used dry paper towel somtimes slightly damp paper towel, but after problems tried the tac rag.

Allow a lot of time, sometimes 24 hours for very thin coat, somtimes 48 hours, sometimes over a week, nothing made much difference.

also, removing skim coat down, and reapplying 'new' layer of skim coat has not worked, either.

If this keeps up, I'll have to follow nestork's suggestion of adding a big hole, but place it more judiciously on top the problem.

[nestork]

Robert:

No, using a tack cloth, or even several of them, wouldn't have caused the problem. Tack cloth simply picks up loose dust, and they're used all the time to remove sanding dust after sanding varnish or polyurethane down when refinishing furniture. If the use of a tack cloth isn't detrimental to the adhesion of polyurethane to polyurethane or varnish to varnish, is shouldn't be detrimental to the adhesion of latex paint to joint compound.

I've used diluted glue to consolidate both drywall joint compound and cement based floor leveller on the apartment floors in my building. I mix the compound I use (either Synko Pro Set 90 Lite Sand or Mapei Planipatch) without any glue so that it dries soft and easy to sand smooth. Then I apply diluted white wood glue to the smooth surface, and the result is that as the glue dries it glues all the gypsum or cement particles together, making the surface much harder. You need that in a floor to properly support the floor tiles.

And, I can tell when the joint compound or floor leveler is absorbing dilute wood glue by the colour change. If the compound turns dark when you paint dilute glue onto it with a roller sleeve, that's because the liquid is being absorbed. Once you no longer see a colour change, it means that no more liquid is being absorbed and so there's no point in putting any more on.

Then, if this is joint compound you're working with, put a skim coat of joint compound over the consolidated joint compound, allow time for it to dry, sand smooth and then paint. That SHOULD fix this problem.

No need to bash a hole in the wall.

[clare]

That will work if it is not softeneing the compound and making it blister. A non-water-based solution is a whole lot more effective (and faster)

[Norminn]

Tried a new batch of compound?

[Vic Smith]

I've painted a lot of joint and patching compound. Sometimes I primed with primer, sometimes with paint. Sometime cheap paint, sometimes expensive paint. Tack cloth is for varnishing or lacquering wood, not plaster, It will always take more paint to blend it in, because it's more absorbent than its surroundings. Usually a second coat does it. I NEVER had a problem with it. In adhesion or cosmetics. I suspect the OP used bad compound or as you said didn't let it cure.

[dadiOH]

I really can't fathom why you are having all this trouble. DW compound is just fine calcium carbonate with a powder...easy to sand, sanding creates a lot of fine calcium carbonate powder which is relatively tenacious as far as wiping it off/up goes. Even if there is some sanding residue remaining, painting over it with anything would pretty much lock it in.

In your OP you said you could, "peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper". The operative word here is "thick". HOW thick? A paint film should NOT be thick. Is there DW compound on the underside of the paint film?

Just guessing but I'm thinking you applied the paint - latex, right? - so heavily that it redissolved the DW compound more than a normal layer of paint would. The paint then dried on the outside leaving the bottom part and the DW compound wet. Over time, while the inside was drying, there was a minute amount of sag forming a paint + some DW compound on the inside that was essentially stuck to nothing.

As I said, just a guess, I have never EVER had the problem you have. Or various others as well :)

[clare]

We had exactly the same problem (if I read the OP correctly) when patching popped drywall nails in our dining room and stair-well. As soon as we painted over the patch - even 48 hours later, the surface of the patch would "lift". It looked AWFULL. If we let it totally dry, the "bubble" would shrink down and look a lot better, but not perfect, and it was not hard to pop the patch out. After trying all kinds of things I decided to seal the patch with a non-water-based paint as a sealer. The surface did not lift. I then painted over it with water based paint with no issue. A shellac, laquer, or oil (alkyd) based primer or paint will all do the job. The alternative would have been to do all the repairs with a "setting" type compound like durabond, that chemically cures (like concrete) instead of drying. Only problem is durabond sets like concrete and is a bugger to sand, and I didn't want to do everything over after having gotten it all sanded almost perfectly smooth...

[nestork]

No, that's not right.

There are different kinds of drywall joint compounds. Not only is there powder that is sold in bags, but there is premix that comes in both boxes and pails. And, for powder there are different kinds of chemical set compounds that harden up after 30, 60 and 90 minutes.

And, on top of all that, each of the chemical sets and premixes comes in different formulations with the biggest difference being the amount of powdered or liquid glue added to the joint compound. There are:

REGULAR or "Taping" joint compounds that have the most glue in them and are meant for taping joints. The high amount of glue in these compounds makes them stick well to the drywall, but it also makes them very hard to sand smooth.

FINISH or "Topping" joint compounds that have the least glue in them and are meant to be applied over the hardened Taping compounds. The low glue content in these compounds makes them very soft and easy to sand smooth.

ALL PURPOSE joint compounds are basically mid-way between Taping and Topping joint compounds so far as glue content goes. They stick well, but also sand smooth without a fight. They're meant mostly for repair work so that the contractor doesn't have to carrying around two bags, boxes or pails everywhere in his truck or at the job site. He can just use the one product for everything, and that's a convenience.

So, to say that joint compound is nothing more than limestone dust just isn't correct. There's a lot of chemistry that goes into making some joint compounds stick better and dry harder and other joint compounds that dry softer and sand smooth easier. If you muck up that chemistry by mixing the joint compound with too much water, you could end up diluting the glue in the compound TOO much with the result that you get a joint compound that dries very soft and very powdery, which I believe is the problem Robert Macy is dealing with now. His joint compound isn't holding together and he's wondering why his paint won't stick. In fact, I expect his paint IS sticking, but the joint compound it's sticking to isn't sticking to the joint compound behind it, and therein lies the problem.

[dadiOH]

Should have been "calcium carbonate with a BINDER". That's right for the premix he was using. Setting compound is calcium sulfate...essentially, plaster of paris.

I imagine the calcium carbonate is precipitated.

At one time there was less inclination to "better living through chemistry"...the binder used to be starch. As in shirts.

I agree.

[clare]

A "setting" type compound like durabond works good for the "taping" and makes an extremely solid joint. That is the 30, 45, or 60 minute compound you mix from powder. Then the finishing compounds (I usually used an "all purpose" lightweight, but the newer "less dust" type works well too) can be u-mix or pre-mixed. Doing a big job, use the pre-mixed. Use a good brand name and check the "best before" date. Prime with a good drywall primer - shellac or alkyd based better than latex. then finish as usual with a fine texture roller and a minimum of 2 coats

For patching plaster (not dry-wall) use a mixture of Poly-Filla and plaster of paris. The plaster makes it set fast and hard, the poly makes it TOUGH - and it blends with the old plaster colour and texture-wise so the repairs are virtually invisible.

[nestork]

I would never use Poly-Filla for anything.

For repairing plaster, most people just use a modern base coat plaster followed by joint compound for the top coat. You can buy base coat plasters at any place listed under "Plaster & Drywall Supplies" in your yellow pages. That's how most contractors fix plaster walls. The only time real lime plaster will be used is where repairs are being done to a historically significant building and it's important to use the same materials and techniques that would have been used by the original builders.

I have been using either Domtar Perlite Admix or USG's Structolite as a base coat plaster and Synko ProSet 90 joint compound as my top coat for well over 25 years now, and my plaster repairs are just as invisible and long lasting as anyone else's.

[clare]

I'd never use straight poly-filla either - but the mix works - it works well, and the components are easily available to anyone at any local hardware or building supply store.

[nestork]

Good. You use what works well for you, and I'll use what works well for me.

Plastering is as much an art as a science.